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Old 10-01-2019, 10:49 AM   #15
Elite Engineering


 
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The broken pistons is generally caused by LSPI (Low Speed Pre Ignition) that breaks the ring lands or if severe enough, the entire piston. Well documented.


There can be NO conventional oil or synthetic blend used on a GDI engine and the bigger names like Amsoil, M1, etc. have a newer formulation that renders the oil vapors less explosive to combat this. Our dual valve E2-X systems also prevent this by providing full time flushing and evacuation of the vapors from the crankcase.


The combustion by-products along with the greater amounts of raw fuel present overwhelms the engine oil. Look at this oil analysis running this system to see how dramatic the impact is on oil life on this modified turbo car at over 13k miles. Next sample will be at 20k miles. As you can see, a proper crankcase evacuation system (not just a catchcan) does far more than address oil ingestion, etc.





GM did make the pistons a bit stronger after the first 2 years of failures, but that is again just addressing the symptom, not the cause.
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Old 10-01-2019, 10:58 AM   #16
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Old 10-01-2019, 11:42 AM   #17
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There they go plugging their catch can again.
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:12 PM   #18
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Warning graphic content......


\How much power before this happened?

https://youtu.be/KuNxf2BhXyg


"All we did was add 5psi and a little bit of timing. Then this happened."
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:55 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil-Bee-NH View Post
With Forged Internals and running something like the ZFR you can hit 400whp with and i stress this competent tuning. You may need to upgrade the low side fuel pump for easier more efficient fuel delivery.
This doesn't seem to address the source of the problem though. I now see that the oil industry is also involved with the phenomenon of "super Knock". now finding out youtubes that have 100K and million views and I never knew about it till now.

explosive vapors due to high oil volatility, ie. over heated the cylinder look at that cooked piston/ring land. Or could it also be charred molten crud falling of the valve and pre-ignighting the cylinder. they say it seems to happen while lugging in low rpms.

one on-line guy says catch cans and next step up in viscosity of SN "SuperKnock" API rated oil as a defense, (yes factory oil has this spec).
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:26 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wookwook View Post


Warning graphic content......


\How much power before this happened?

https://youtu.be/KuNxf2BhXyg


"All we did was add 5psi and a little bit of timing. Then this happened."
I have a lot of problems with this. Sounds like a poor tune and improper maintenance (oil issues).

Either way, down the road I intend to switch this car from being my daily driver to being just the "fun" car. At that point, it's forged pistons/rods, intercooler, and bigger turbo. My concern is more with the transmission and rear axle.
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Old 10-02-2019, 11:07 AM   #21
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It's not just the LTG, I think but it was getting late when I was researching but I "think" it is a weakness of Direct Injection engines in general. Designers can now tune closer the to the limits of failure with the ECUs today. Script kiddies know better and squeeze the living shit out of the car and there you go.

Keeping things in perspective, its all about Govt Regs and a car maker trying to satisfy demands of buyers that pushes the engine's (design) limits.

I'm not worried, but definitely will treat my car better now. I think I have most of the thrills I really need packaged in for now. But you know how that goes.

If she blows, my thought is to transplant a salvage SS drive train.
Enjoy the Ride!
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:43 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wookwook View Post
It's not just the LTG, I think but it was getting late when I was researching but I "think" it is a weakness of Direct Injection engines in general. Designers can now tune closer the to the limits of failure with the ECUs today. Script kiddies know better and squeeze the living shit out of the car and there you go.

Keeping things in perspective, its all about Govt Regs and a car maker trying to satisfy demands of buyers that pushes the engine's (design) limits.

I'm not worried, but definitely will treat my car better now. I think I have most of the thrills I really need packaged in for now. But you know how that goes.

If she blows, my thought is to transplant a salvage SS drive train.
Enjoy the Ride!
W?
They were running Nitrous when they blew up.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:02 PM   #23
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where did it say that? I didnt see it.


all if ound was their comment in the replys


"Oh yeah, this car was on 23psi (they're on 18 stock) and it had a little more ignition timing in it too, lol."


Surely not from an intake plate i hope. And being a dry shot it shouldn't pose as much risk coming in with the intake air as opposed to injected? I can definitely see the O2 rich air aiding in explosions tho.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:24 PM   #24
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hmm. apparently minis actually code for super knock. A dose of walnut chips blasted in the intake port cleans the back of the intake valves and cures the affliction. Kind of like as much fun as a root canal i guess, but manageable.


I trimmed it down to the important bits.



https://youtu.be/EIudYJsB4-0?t=99
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:54 PM   #25
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I'm going out on a limb here, and correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems to me all of the failed pistons that cracked from over heating happened to cars that don't have the "HD Cooling Package" (2 additional auxiliary radiators and oil cooler).

I think an additional aftermarket Oil Cooler like Mishimoto sells is a safe addition to help prevent blowing up pistons along with a catch can system, aftermarket Intercooler, regular oil changes and a safe "responsible" tuner that absolutely knows what their doing. Sorry if this is all common sense.
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:35 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Start The Machine View Post
I'm going out on a limb here, and correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems to me all of the failed pistons that cracked from over heating happened to cars that don't have the "HD Cooling Package" (2 additional auxiliary radiators and oil cooler).

I think an additional aftermarket Oil Cooler like Mishimoto sells is a safe addition to help prevent blowing up pistons along with a catch can system, aftermarket Intercooler, regular oil changes and a safe "responsible" tuner that absolutely knows what their doing. Sorry if this is all common sense.
Further on common sense, it's always a good idea to let your car idle for a minute or so after running it hard instead of turning it off immediately. Let things cool a bit.
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Old 11-09-2019, 07:27 PM   #27
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rather than spending a whole lot of money modding the 4 or 6,why wouldnt you buy the SS to begin with?by the time you shell out for turbos,tuning,etc. you could find a nice used year old SS CPO car and still be under warranty.
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Old 11-10-2019, 08:10 AM   #28
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At what point do you have to begin worrying about the transmission and rear axle on these things?
last couple of weeks I been looking for the same info. I did some math gymnastics with spreadsheets and some regression testing against sae/std/msa corrections.

got a pretty good picture of the drive train limit with input/axle torques etc but the only published limiter is input shaft TQ on the M-6 trans which is 322 tq.

It the simplest form of the equation it seems to be 425 hp out of the ltg crankshaft for the m6 across all 6 speeds. If your ok with assumptions, the axles would support that as well. 322 tq @ 2500K / 425 hp @ 6500k.

Never mind any of that. The biggest problem is getting the ECU to deliver on the desired power curve hence tq limiters that no one seems to have cracked that nut yet, beyond reaching initial peaks like I have at 2600k The power line stays flat.

I think there's a little more power curve to get at before the turbo peaks.


Name:  322 flat.jpg
Views: 327
Size:  165.3 KB



sorry about the mess, but here's data.


TRANS

Engine RPM Torque
Engine TORQUE 332 332 332 332 332 332
Gear 1 2 3 4 5 6
Crank RPM 4500 4500 4500 4500 4500 4500
Gear Ratio Reducer TR 3160 4.12 2.62 1.81 1.3 1 0.8

"Trans Ouput Torque =
Input Torque x Ratio of Gear Increaser" 1368 870 601 432 332 266

"Trans Output Speed =
Input Speed / Ratio of Gear Increaser" 1092 1718 2486 3462 4500 5625
Final Drive 3.27 3.27 3.27 3.27 3.27 3.27

Input TQ taken at the Axle 4473 2844 1965 1411 1086 869
Axle TQ PID in VCS Scanner 4338 2759 1906 1369 1053 842


axle Speed RPM 334 525 760 1059 1376 1720
Car MPH 26.13 41.25 59.94 83.46 109.31 137.15


5252 hp 284.46 284.46 RPM 4500
5252 hp plus efficiency 1.14 324.29 324.29 TQ 332

RPM 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500
GTS Dyno TQ 300 308 304 287 262
GTS Dyno HP 200 238 263 288 261
VCS airmass TQ 310 321 320 302 286
VCS std airmass HP 206 245 275 289 299
vcs estimated ENG tq 319 336 324 308 287
SAE FW HP 228 272 299 306


TQ
HP = TQ*RPM/5252 332 332 332 332 332 332 0
DIVIDER
5252 5252 5252 5252 5252 5252 5252
RPM
3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500

std hp 221 253 284 316 348 379 0
sae hp 252 288 324 360 396 432 0


diameter inches 26.30 26.40 26.50 26.50 26.70 26.80
pie 3.14 3.14 3.14 3.14 3.14 3.14
circumfrence inches 82.62 82.94 83.25 83.25 83.88 84.19
circumference feet 6.89 6.91 6.94 6.94 6.99 7.02
feet in a mile 5280 5280 5280 5280 5280 5280
revs per mile 766.85 763.94 761.06 761.06 755.36 752.54
Miles per Minute 0.44 0.69 1.00 1.39 1.82 2.29
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