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Old 07-09-2019, 07:55 PM   #1
Dysan911

 
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e85: Getting the right mix in the tank

Hey guys!. Finally going to be getting set up with a Flex fuel tune on my car and trying out some e85 for the first time. After talking to Ted today we'll be aiming for e50 so I wanted to ask for you guys that do a similar mix of pump gas & E85 like e40/50. What's the best way to go about getting that specific mixture in my tank on your fill ups since there isn't an E50 only pump? Do you start with a near empty tank and just add half 93 and then a few gallons of E85? This will be my first experience using it and I know several of you guys probably already have a good formula down on how to fill it up with e50 every time.

I do have an Aeroforce gauge with the latest firmware so it should read Ethanol content % but wasn't sure if you have to start and stop the engine several times to see how close you are, etc.

Thanks Fellas!.

.
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Old 07-09-2019, 08:49 PM   #2
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Just shoot for 50/50 mix between regular gas (E10 here in New England) and E85, and that will put you in the low-to-mid 40’s. I was at a 1/4 tank of regular 93, we added a 5 gallon can of E85, and that put me at E43 on the dyno. Remember, you don’t need to be *exactly* E50, the tune will scale itself accordingly. Hope that helps!
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:01 PM   #3
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I’ve mixed and never had a correct reading at the pump. Usually within a mile or two the percentage will stop climbing and balance out.

I keep this bookmark handy to keep the mix where I want.

http://www.georgebelton.com/E85Calculator.php
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Originally Posted by arpad_m - “Aww, yet another oil thread with almost the same question in the OP“
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:44 AM   #4
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Thank you Josh and Troch!. That is perfect!
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:48 AM   #5
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Why? The point of the FF sensor is to not worry about the mix.
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:51 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatPack View Post
Why? The point of the FF sensor is to not worry about the mix.

True but I believe if you're trying to target a specific amount of E you need to figure out the mixture. In my case my tuner wants to start off with seeing how my fuel system does @ E50 and since you can't pump pure E50 into the tank I have to figure out how much E and how much regular 93 octane will result in that.



I would love to be able to run full E85 though. I'd probably need a fuel cam to do that.
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Old 07-10-2019, 06:56 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatPack View Post
Why? The point of the FF sensor is to not worry about the mix.
Even with LT4 fueling, you will not have enough fuel to run straight E85 with a blower. So most Tuners start in the E30-E40 range to make sure things look good before attempting to push the E number higher. So it can be helpful to have a ballpark idea of how much E85 you need to add to get started.
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatPack View Post
Why? The point of the FF sensor is to not worry about the mix.
Because if you are supercharged and there isnt enough headroom in the fuel system you cant run a full tank of E85. At WOT the fuel system cant provide enough fuel and you will run lean and then KABOOM...!!!

Here is how I do it, it works and I am always with in 1-2 point of actual.

At the half way point on the gauge (straight up) it will take 10g of gas to fill up. The Camaro tank is 19.8g.

Get a OBD2 Bluetooth adapter and the free to use Torque app. Then you can add a custom PID to monitor the Ethanol sensor unless you have another way.

Now for the math...

Lets say you have 10g remaining in the tank and you are at E40. Take the 10g and multiply it by the current rating E40. You will get 400. Write that number down.

Now lets say you want to bump up to say E50, start at 5g gallons of E85 and multiply 85 times 5g of fuel and you will get 425. Write this number down.

Now add the 400 + 425 and you will have 825, divide that by 19.8g and you will get 41.67. That means at a half tank of remaining gas being at E40 if you add 5g of E85 it will bring up up to E41.67. So you need to add more than 5g of E85 to raise the mix.

In this case if you are at a half tank of E40 you will need to add at least 7g of E85 and it will bring you up to E50.25, reality is that most stations E85 isnt really E85, it is somewhere around E70-E80. So the actual blend with be slightly lower.

Once you add the 7g of E85 to the tank top the rest off with pure 91 or 93 octane. This is how I do my E85 mix every time I get gas and it works perfectly.
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Old 07-10-2019, 08:01 AM   #9
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Be careful with the Aeroforce gauge readings, mine is reading 73% right now and I have filled it up twice with 84% that was tested by me to be 84%. I don't know what the deal is but neither does Aeroforce.
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Old 07-10-2019, 08:22 AM   #10
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I pump 7 gallons of E and 5 gallons of 93 and its always real close too 50%. Pump e85 in my area is always right around 80%E, so it pretty easy for me. In other cities, pump e85 has been as low as 55% though, so you will need to know what your working with initially. Luckily you won't have to be super exact.
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Old 07-10-2019, 09:29 AM   #11
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Thanks guys!. this is super helpful!. Sucks that the Aeroforce wasn't reading correctly Umbriel!. I wonder if it has anything to do with the particular kit you have installed. I should be able to see 10% with just 93 in my tank for the time being and know whether it's reading correctly. Or I can plug in one of those ELM OBD II adapters and find an IOS App that I can compare the E content. (Hopefully).



So first thing I need to do is find out what the E% is on the E85 at the station. Is there a good way to go about that? I'm thinking running the tank as low as possible and just put a few gallons of E85 and then read the E%. Then from there I should be able to figure out how much 93 to mix..
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Old 07-10-2019, 09:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysan911 View Post
Thanks guys!. this is super helpful!. Sucks that the Aeroforce wasn't reading correctly Umbriel!. I wonder if it has anything to do with the particular kit you have installed. I should be able to see 10% with just 93 in my tank for the time being and know whether it's reading correctly. Or I can plug in one of those ELM OBD II adapters and find an IOS App that I can compare the E content. (Hopefully).
That was my question also since the gauge reads off of the computer. I have the SMG Speed kit installed and they said they use the same sensor GM uses but I have read people have issues with the sensors reading wrong from time to time so I might just need to get a new sensor for it. I am going to talk with my tuner when it goes in for tuning for the Procharger that is being installed.
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:09 AM   #13
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When you turn on the sensor in the tune, E content should read 10-12% with 93 pump.

I use a Bluetooth ELM scanner with Torque Pro app to monitor E content and other parameters.

A 50/50 mix of E85 and 93 should put you around E45.
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:33 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingLT1 View Post
When you turn on the sensor in the tune, E content should read 10-12% with 93 pump.

I use a Bluetooth ELM scanner with Torque Pro app to monitor E content and other parameters.

A 50/50 mix of E85 and 93 should put you around E45.

Awesome that would really make it very easy. I am hoping I don't run into any issues using the DSX Flexfuel sensor with the Aeroforce Gauge. I hoping to see that 10-12% with 93 first. I know Torque App is very popular but unfortunately it's Android only I believe.
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