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Old 01-14-2020, 05:45 PM   #1
wookwook
 
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Snow WM Kit

Just received a Snow 2.5 with braided hose kit. I plan to figure out how to mount it all in the engine area. I have a flux wire welder (crappy) to make some brackets. I am taking this on as a heat management system first and potentially as a power adder second but that remains to be seen. Lower AITs in the heat of summer would be the goal, with any ecu/ait spark bump as a bonus. I just don't know yet how the MAF will play into it yet.

If anyone has any experience on I4 please fill me in. I am thinking 2 test areas, pre and post IC. I aim to see how IA, MAP and O2 handles the mild spray I plan to use, natively or if a fueling tweak is needed. I hear tell no more than 1 AFR point rich is plenty, better stay about .5 delta in AFR is more ideal. I think its possible to just balance on STFT it will tolerate +/- 2.5 % just fine (?). For street and track use.

I will update as I progress. And weather permits.
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Old 01-14-2020, 07:56 PM   #2
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Jason@JacFab did Methanol Injection for a bit I'd check with him.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:20 PM   #3
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Be careful with that. You will blow up your car if not done exactly right. I think Jason (JacFab) blew up his engine messing around with it. I hope he chimes in and corrects me if I'm wrong. I just wish there were step by step, A-Z installation and tuning instructions out there.
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Old 01-15-2020, 01:05 PM   #4
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I don't think the install is the problem more the getting tuning just right. It's not easy for us because the very few that have done it don't share anything on the tuner forums.
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Old 01-15-2020, 07:55 PM   #5
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yea that's the thing. from what I see the important thing is fueling. should be small enrichment, which is easy enough to tune for WOT. This unit has a on/off switch in the gauge which is really cool. they say turn up boost and timing for gains. I'm already max boosted and haven't touched timing and don't plan to. Hoping that the ecu will see cooler AITs and do the adjustments on its own. I think the main issue is proper dosing (control) and possibly spark gap. I think this platform might need the stage 4 controller. will say that up front. but will hold off until i get some d a t a. for my setup just KR control is a good gain.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wookwook View Post
yea that's the thing. from what I see the important thing is fueling. should be small enrichment, which is easy enough to tune for WOT. This unit has a on/off switch in the gauge which is really cool. they say turn up boost and timing for gains. I'm already max boosted and haven't touched timing and don't plan to. Hoping that the ecu will see cooler AITs and do the adjustments on its own. I think the main issue is proper dosing (control) and possibly spark gap. I think this platform might need the stage 4 controller. will say that up front. but will hold off until i get some d a t a. for my setup just KR control is a good gain.
Something a few of us are noticing especially those who unlocked fueling is unless your doing stupid shit or running a top secret setup your gonna run out of fuel availability quick in these cars.
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Old 01-16-2020, 07:42 AM   #7
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Totally listening. I've been ears to the ground. Eventually, if one has been doing 90 percent research and 10 percent conservatively tuning, you get to what an oem DD will tolerate reliably. So far, adding up small gains seems to be adding up using the building block method.
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Old 01-16-2020, 09:02 AM   #8
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Disclaimer: I do not like meth injection. My experience has show un equal cylinder distribution. You can understand why this may be a problem. Now that may be a result of several factors I wont get into much.



Couple of tips. Spray AFTER the IC. Spraying before the IC will be counter productive for your goal. You will go rich when you start to spray, so you will need to pull fuel in your high boost area. Use the IAT modifier table for adding timing. (scale this table out for even more precise control) That way, when your not spraying, main spark table is not affected. Set up a safety net of some kind in case you run out of meth. You will go lean at WOT depending on how much fuel you have pulled out up top, and the car will not know meth is missing.
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Old 01-16-2020, 09:46 AM   #9
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agreed. I came back to the before IC thing after I thought about it. I suppose it is possible to actually condense the mist under certain conditions, so totally onboard with your there.

I am eyeing the lowest part of the hotside pipe to try and evaporate the mist as much as possible, so it will pass the AIT as humid air. have to find a local to weld a bung on it. yes there seems to be no fail back on this other than an alert on the gauge and a AFR alert on the areo gauge im gonna setup on the dual dash air vent pod.

Being able turn it on and off you can opt to just use it when AITs are say 100F or something like that. I am thinking of doing safe spray so if it fails, I am hoping the O2 will correct the STFT if lamda isn't not too far out there.

The challenge I am seeing is that the boost rate plateaus early and often so map only metering is kind of not effective for my strategy, I think the stage 4 which is totally controllable, will do the RPM window to only operate in the upper revs. Its another $380 option. expensive project already even though I got the base kit near cost.

The issue with a window switch is finding a reliable tap for the tach, non-can bus. I found this. A little nervous about tapping the electrics.

I think Im gonna just do the trunk mount route, so I should be able to get going on it soon.

Really appreciate the inputs!
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Old 01-19-2020, 10:24 PM   #10
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My friends dad used to be an engine engineer at GM, and used to work on some racing program, and I asked him about meth injection with direct injected engines. Basically anything other than injecting into each runner(which depending on the manifold might actually be hard to do well as the angle the nozzle injects is of importance and might not be as intuitive as one would imagine) is something he wouldn't consider. The intake manifolds are designed to run dry, not wet, and most will not be able to distribute the meth evenly which could easily cause one cylinder to constantly be lean and another rich. By how much is impossible to know without legit testing. The manifolds being smooth is also an issue and it will prob trap and pool some meth. That said lots of people do it with what seems like success but people pushing thier stock internal engines obviously have them fail more often but we don't know if that was meth related. Spraying the intercooler on the outside is an option that can be done and is something that I think is better then most think because they setup it wrong. It has be sprayed before you asked it to be a heat sink not during, well not as much during.



Unrelated question if you don't mind, any idea why my stock engine will constantly fail to get past 15-17 lbs of boost? Lately I can drive on the highway with constant 25° iat temps in this frigid weather, with a tank full of shell 93, and it still won't hit more than 17. Before I was seeing 21 nearly Everytime I went flat even in the summer. Plugs are fine, maintenance has been solid etc
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Old 01-20-2020, 07:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
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Unrelated question if you don't mind, any idea why my stock engine will constantly fail to get past 15-17 lbs of boost? Lately I can drive on the highway with constant 25° iat temps in this frigid weather, with a tank full of shell 93, and it still won't hit more than 17. Before I was seeing 21 nearly Everytime I went flat even in the summer. Plugs are fine, maintenance has been solid etc

The reason your only seeing 17 lbs of boost in the frigid temps, is because most likely, thats all you PCM needs to meet its max allowed torque. These PCM's are torque based, and have a max torque limit from the factory. Depending on conditions, that may require anywhere from 22psi, down to your 15-17 psi. Most likely totally normal. If your tuned, there may be another issue.
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:10 AM   #12
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+1, both comments thanks.

I totally get the added mass of the damp air will have kinetic challenges. I am going to try and stay as light spray as possible. And see what I can do about finding the distribution limits.

Also what Cooper said is correct. It is a closed system and the upper limit of power is a constraint system of engine torque. Every thing we are trying to do is manage that upper torque curve. So with spark, boost, TPS, its gonna strategize to meet the mapped power demand using the best strategy, in your case reducing boost. Speaking of fluid dynamics, air isn't going to flow as fast.

Winter air is much denser than summer air. I bet your timing advance is up. I gotta get out there and get some logs after we get some salt clearing rain.

You can only get into the 350+ Engine torque range with more piston pressure using alternative fueling and/or bigger turbo, i.e. radical mods. The physics will only go so far without radical mods.

Might have drifted a little but - Rest assured my goal is to try and get this to be a net +, and I will share what I find out.

Keep the info coming!
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Old 01-20-2020, 06:12 PM   #13
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I knew I should have mentioned that I'm also logging the torque and it's way down. I'll see if I can view something like ECU commanded torque; I'm just using an ultra guage for reference but the butt Dyno is all that's needed because it's a pretty serious drop. It was also happening in the summer but not very often so who knows. Just yesterday I'm heating a rattle of sorts and possibly wastegate flutter, or a sound similar, when shifting on boost or getting out of the throttle so I think I have some other issues that may be explain it.
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Old 01-20-2020, 06:51 PM   #14
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Ah. to me I seems like you want to check if the Recirc valve is sticking. That would be an easy one to do, just find the JACFAC BOL instructions. its 3 bolts on the front of the turbo housing. Some have done gun oil but double check that.



You do sound like you have a command of logging so good job there. for the long term the VCM/MPVI2 is well worth it.
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