[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

https://youtu.be/Aogf3cbTWo4

Been wanting to see this for a long time... 2020 gt500 vs m7 19 zr1... gt500 gets ahead on the hit, I'm surprised at this since usually the stick cars take the hit. Maybe the z wasn't at the best rpm or the gt500 driver reacted better, also seems that a dct reacts quite well on a rolling hit like a manual. Either way the zr1 starts pulling hard towards the end. Zr1 driver may have not been the best driver but he certainly wasn't the worst.

Zr1 ftw!!! Fastest factory manual car ever built, and will probably never be beaten.

Not surprising that the DCT reacts like a manual on a rolling hit. When you look at the internals, a DCT is basically a manual transmission. Same input shaft / output shaft / countershaft layout with shift forks and synchronizer rings. The even / odd gears on parallel shafts plus the computer controlled clutch actuation are the major differences. It’s basically what a manual transmission shifted by a computer would be.

[Rodan]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Yes I definitely will be. The good thing is that bikes these days have driving modes, TC, LC, ABS, and other cool features to keep you safe. Or, safer, lol!! I have been driving it in C mode (safest least aggressive) since I got it home. Today I rode it in B mode and then A mode (most aggressive) for a couple short runs. C mode is a breeze especially when starting off from a stop. So I use that around town mainly so I won't accidentally blip it and send the front sky bound. Once I'm out in the open or on the highway I switch to B or A mode. I am getting more confident in my turns and leaning it into the corners as well as defensive riding. There is a lot to look out for. I probably won't be able to ride for the next few days due to work but I'll be back on it some time next week!! It is a lot of fun riding again!!

Blaq... you've got one hell of a good bike there. I know, 'cause I owned a 'Busa for years.

I don't know you're riding experience, but a 'Busa (like any modern high performance bike) can get you into big trouble before you know it. I highly recommend taking the MSF Basic and then Experienced rider courses, or the equivalent when they are available in your area. Next, take it to a trackday and get a little instruction there. The skills you gain through these courses will make you a much better and safer rider.

Having spent almost 4 decades riding, touring, drag racing and road racing on bikes, I can tell you that most riders have no idea what they don't know. I can't tell you how many wrecks I've seen that could have been prevented with a little training.

Ride safe!

[oldman]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Now you're pointing to why the GT500 CFTP is good for one lap. duh. Its a porker.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I graduated top of my graduating class from a private engineering school. I get physics and thermodynamics.
Another disconnected post. Now you're pointing to why the GT500 CFTP is good for one lap. duh. Its a porker.

So you do understand and I wasn't anywhere near the top of my class, congratulations on that. If the same tires and we'll just say same brakes (even though they aren't the same between these 2 cars) are on 2 completely different objects (don't even have to be cars) and one weighs 1000 lbs more than the other, which ones will deteriorate (fade) faster?

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

LOL, WOW, he really craves THAT much attention from a grown man??!! HAHA, just, WOW!! WTF is wrong with this kid? Begging people to quote him so I'll see it?! That is just weird. He really needs to make some friends, find a job, get a life, do something. That is just very sad.

Anyway, hotlap, did you post the info on the PP2 vs the SLE or was that someone else? The PP2 also faded in performance after the first lap right? And it wasn't the tires. I think it overheated or something. Was it the diff or did it go into limp mode? I do not quite remember. But the point is that even when it isn't a factor of tires fading, these Mustangs still find a way to lose performance after 1 hero lap. I also remember finding it odd that SP only posted one quarter mile time from his entire full day track session when he ran that "10.6". I am not sure if the other times were posted. But initially they only posted that one run. It used to be in the past the MM&FF would post detailed info on their entire sessions including the time of day, temps, launching RPMs, tire pressure, etc. Now it just seems that these guys go out there and only post the best run and that is what they use when they make their claims.

This thread is such deja vu, are we really going to talk about the joke PP2 again? No one, especially not me, has said anything good about that joke of a car. The tires are actually too good for that car as it does overheat it's components in a few laps. Ford threw those tires on it just to make it get one lap better than the SS1LE. As discussed AGAIN.
Also AGAIN most people only discuss their fastest pass at the strip, nothing out of the ordinary there.

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Dude, just admit you were wrong when you said all cars experience tire fade after the first lap. Facts proved you wrong, don't deflect...man up!

Nope not what i said this time or the time before. I admit when i'm wrong, unlike Mr. Whole

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

So auto to auto the ZR1 will walk away. Heck even the following car (Hellcat) kept up pretty good. Pulley and tune on the HC and it'll take the GT500 easily.

Was this a debate? I guess i missed the part where people thought a stock GT500 would beat a ZR1. Must be only the Mustang fanbois.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

This is how I feel as well, 100% in fact. I never got in to muscle cars for speed, they have never been the fastest money can buy. I got in to them for the V8 and rawness, and mechanical connection through a manual transmission. My M3 had a DCT, and they are awesome transmissions, but there is no meaningful difference between that and the traditional autos of today. The DCT got real boring, and it caused me to sell the car.

My fun car will also ALWAYS be a manual. As long as it has great looks and a V8 that produces great fun, I dont really care how fast it is.

I actually bought my 99 SS M6 when manuals were faster than autos (properly driven of course). While I am certainly a manual guy - in stock form, the 4th gen made it an easy decision for me to own a manual. Turned down a local auto SS only to drive 2hrs away to buy an M6.

Fast forward 20 years and of course auto and DCT have caught and surpassed the manuals (stock form - none of this post is in regards to modified cars). That said, after having driven PDKs, AMG & BMW M DCTs, C7 Z A8s, etc...I would NEVER own an auto/DCT sports car. My exception would be a dedicate drag race car with a stalled and build auto. Again, that's why I have 3 current manuals in the driveway.

Don't get me wrong - the DCTs, even the A8 did a great job in the cars I drove (A8 issues are another discussion altogether). The issue I had was being bored with the paddles within 10 mins and just leaving the selector in D and choosing whatever driving mode suited the situation. At the end of every drive, I wished for a manual transmission.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

I actually bought my 99 SS M6 when manuals were faster than autos (properly driven of course). While I am certainly a manual guy - in stock form, the 4th gen made it an easy decision for me to own a manual. Turned down a local auto SS only to drive 2hrs away to buy an M6.

Fast forward 20 years and of course auto and DCT have caught and surpassed the manuals (stock form - none of this post is in regards to modified cars). That said, after having driven PDKs, AMG & BMW M DCTs, C7 Z A8s, etc...I would NEVER own an auto/DCT sports car. My exception would be a dedicate drag race car with a stalled and build auto. Again, that's why I have 3 current manuals in the driveway.

Don't get me wrong - the DCTs, even the A8 did a great job in the cars I drove (A8 issues are another discussion altogether). The issue I had was being bored with the paddles within 10 mins and just leaving the selector in D and choosing whatever driving mode suited the situation. At the end of every drive, I wished for a manual transmission.

Very well said, that was my exact experience too. I just never felt satisfied after driving a car that I could not manually shift. My first car was a '96 SS M6 myself!!! Loved that car, and it hauled some ass too!

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by oldman

At some point and I'm not a prude, this 1000 HP roll race on the street has to stop, as it will lead to the deaths of people PERIOD.
Now if there is legitimate Texas Mile or salt flat, or silver state (loss a fiend in that one), then maybe it would be a topic, but we all know it ain't going to be won by a GT500

^Agree. Although how is "roll racing" considered racing? Little skill involved here. Sort of like many things today we have to dumb it down so the less talented and skilled can participate. The hard part is deciding what to go from/to closely followed by three horn beeps and then matting the gas and waiting for your auto trans to change gears for you. Go to a drag strip and learn how to drive your car already. You might actually enjoy the challenge and I'm certain the innocent bystander you didn't kill will thank you as well.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by LESS1

^Agree. Although how is "roll racing" considered racing? Little skill involved here. Sort of like many things today we have to dumb it down so the less talented and skilled can participate. The hard part is deciding what to go from/to closely followed by three horn beeps and then matting the gas and waiting for your auto trans to change gears for you. Go to a drag strip and learn how to drive your car already. You might actually enjoy the challenge and I'm certain the innocent bystander you didn't kill will thank you as well.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by LESS1

^Agree. Although how is "roll racing" considered racing? Little skill involved here. Sort of like many things today we have to dumb it down so the less talented and skilled can participate. The hard part is deciding what to go from/to closely followed by three horn beeps and then matting the gas and waiting for your auto trans to change gears for you. Go to a drag strip and learn how to drive your car already. You might actually enjoy the challenge and I'm certain the innocent bystander you didn't kill will thank you as well.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Very well said, that was my exact experience too. I just never felt satisfied after driving a car that I could not manually shift. My first car was a '96 SS M6 myself!!! Loved that car, and it hauled some ass too!

Oh I would love to have a 96 SS - or a 97 30th with the LT4. 4th gen goals!

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by LESS1

^Agree. Although how is "roll racing" considered racing? Little skill involved here. Sort of like many things today we have to dumb it down so the less talented and skilled can participate. The hard part is deciding what to go from/to closely followed by three horn beeps and then matting the gas and waiting for your auto trans to change gears for you. Go to a drag strip and learn how to drive your car already. You might actually enjoy the challenge and I'm certain the innocent bystander you didn't kill will thank you as well.

Also , but it is the best/most equal way to compare the speed of the cars themselves. (see also: driver skill removed)

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Also , but it is the best/most equal way to compare the speed of the cars themselves. (see also: driver skill removed)

I would expand that to say roll racing compares the engine and drivetrain. The car's chassis, and its ability to put down the power is also removed.

Funny thing is that roll racing became fashionable to eliminate having to hook up and the potential damaged that can cause. So now they are increasing the power to the point of causing the same issue but at a starting speed of 40 mph.

[oldman]

Once the car leaves the dealer there is no comparison as there are no “stock” cars. Look and I hope this antidotal evidence stays on the internet FOREVER, I purchased two low mile GLH-S Omnis from the original owners. Each told me the car was 100% stock. Each one was already modified with the Mopar 205 HP brain. We’re they lying, or did the dealer just toss it in to sell the car for even more $, or did they leave Shelby that way. Remember GLH-Ss were built at Shelby. I don’t know. The car was about as fast as a stock GN, if there was such a thing. That was the 80s and cheating has never stopped, probably goes back to Roman chariot racing Ben Hur style. Point is both cars looked 100% stock their owners said they were 100% stock, but they were packing 30 more HP than stock.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I would expand that to say roll racing compares the engine and drivetrain. The car's chassis, and its ability to put down the power is also removed.

Funny thing is that roll racing became fashionable to eliminate having to hook up and the potential damaged that can cause. So now they are increasing the power to the point of causing the same issue but at a starting speed of 40 mph.

a 60 MPH roll would be good for me (just in the power band of 2nd gear). I figure that each car has its sweet spot, 15 MPH was my sweet spot for the LS1 auto with stall and 3.23 gears, at that speed I knew the converter would flash up and the 555R would bite. The 2.73 guys probably like 30 MPH, Mustang guys hated any roll races as the Cobra could only win with a clutch drop and decent tires, the engine was down big in terms of HP vs a modded LS1. Mustang guys would NEVER roll race a LS1.

I wounder how bad it will be when a shaft lets go. We are talking big HP and RPM (which the rear diff is changing back to torque). I have to be realistic, there is nothing wrong with a little fun, I have a self imposed 99 MPH shut down, unless I'm alone (not racing, street fighting, goofing etc) and then it is still top of 3rd which is 116 MPH. I think of myself as pretty disciplined. Actually my final build, I don't street fight at all. The car is very squirrelly in the 1st two gears. So that is like 85 HP, do the math and I can only "safely" race from 86 MPH to 99 MPH... LOL A

ctually a stock M6 SS was an ideal street fighter, good motor to weight to tire, could powershift all gears, FBO it kind of loss some toss ability / flexibility probably with 888R it could be pretty controllable. But supercharged, right not really as fun, as the car is plain dangerous under most conditions.. Hench the roll racing but then you rapidly reach the potential of crashing into the Prius full of kids.

I for one think a C8 would be a perfectly fine DD, street fighting, controlled ride. Same goes for the GT350. It would seem to me the seat has to fit the pants and the GT500's niche is what? dunno, roll race king? OK then, find some Demons to play with. I think it is a neat car and for somebody with bucks and does not want or can't shift does a lot of things. It just (probably because of weight and DCT) just does not get my blood up. So the GT 500 is a one trick pony looking for the trick.

C8 right now, beautiful car, mid engine traction, DD potential especially with base tires (I'd install the factory headers sooner or later), kill anything stop light challenge, NOBODY is going to mess with you at the lights . Cons no manual.

GT 500, not bad looking of a car, good HP numbers. Cons, dealer markup, no manual, heavy (so sticky tires needed and they will wear), crazy expensive if something breaks. End of life platform, cross plane engine does not sound as good. Still looking for its one trick.

GT 350, beautiful car, balanced, glorious sound track, M6 yumm, good track numbers and probably a decent street fighter. Cons. ADM, dependability suspect.

SS not bad looking car, balanced, cheap, M6 yumm, pretty much does everything OK, easy to mod from FBO to crazy. Cons. auto way faster, GM shafts suck (don't know why chevy just did not spend another 100 bucks on Zl1 shafts call it a "track pack").

Zl1, ditto the SS and add solid GM warranty. Cons auto way faster (it is what it is), the engine is on the mild side with cam and size of blower, IMO it would cost minimal money to LT5 it. Maybe just again IMO there are problems with the eLock diff at this range and the LT5 would only work with the auto which is fine.