LME 390 - Page 8

taylorforschool@gmail.com · 03-06-2024, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2018ZL1

Those great numbers! Hooking will be your challenge now! If it hooks you will be in the 8's easily! Very nice!

^^ Camaro big dawgs pushing big numbers!

ZL14ever · 03-07-2024, 12:11 AM

What 100 octane fuel are you using? did you try going higher than 22 deg timing?

Nice results indeed

*radz28* · 03-07-2024, 06:52 AM

Awesome numbers. I don't remember seeing if you're still at elevation, but I think I remember seeing LMP getting some more power out of a 2650. I don't remember if it was on E', and of course, wouldn't know the cam' specs', but the boost was similar, and your numbers are still great.

JSH · 03-07-2024, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZL14ever

What 100 octane fuel are you using? did you try going higher than 22 deg timing?

Nice results indeed

Sunoco GT100

My tuner believes it only wants 22 deg. at wot, which is very surprising to me considering that I believe that's pretty close to stock advance. Actually, it's more than surprising, it's ... confusing

KingLT1 · 03-07-2024, 09:09 AM

Nice results!

Fwiw, Folks get way to worried about timing...my brother is the same way. 22 degrees is probably close for a setup like that. 24 would be absolute max imo. This isn't your average bolt-on or mild cam setup where guys are pushing 28-30degrees on Ethanol. Cylinder temps play a vital role in how you time an engine. Something making 1100+ vs 700 is going to have significantly higher cylinder temps. Aside from that it didn't hook before, so it sure as hell isn't going to hook now. So a degree or 2 of timing should be the least of concern here. lol

JSH · 03-07-2024, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Nice results!

Fwiw, Folks get way to worried about timing...my brother is the same way. 22 degrees is probably close for a setup like that. 24 would be absolute max imo. This isn't your average bolt-on or mild cam setup where guys are pushing 28-30degrees on Ethanol. Cylinder temps play a vital role in how you time an engine. Something making 1100+ vs 700 is going to have significantly higher cylinder temps. Aside from that it didn't hook before, so it sure as hell isn't going to hook now. So a degree or 2 of timing should be the least of concern here. lol

I'll put the 3.0" pulley on it on the street, and 2.625 at the strip. It's as fast as it can be w/o a cage, so this should do it.

JSH · 03-07-2024, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radz28

Awesome numbers. I don't remember seeing if you're still at elevation, but I think I remember seeing LMP getting some more power out of a 2650. I don't remember if it was on E', and of course, wouldn't know the cam' specs', but the boost was similar, and your numbers are still great.

It's got the most boost +/- it's ever had so I'm not sure what it wants now. I'm sure an E guy could figure a way to make more on a bet.

ZL14ever · 03-07-2024, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Nice results!

Fwiw, Folks get way to worried about timing...my brother is the same way. 22 degrees is probably close for a setup like that. 24 would be absolute max imo. This isn't your average bolt-on or mild cam setup where guys are pushing 28-30degrees on Ethanol. Cylinder temps play a vital role in how you time an engine. Something making 1100+ vs 700 is going to have significantly higher cylinder temps. Aside from that it didn't hook before, so it sure as hell isn't going to hook now. So a degree or 2 of timing should be the least of concern here. lol

Thanks. I understand and agree with the logical reason behind leaving timing at 22 deg. I was wondering if the car is octane limited at this point. If so, do you think an E50 mix would allow 2-3 more degrees of timing?

Joshinator99 · 03-07-2024, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZL14ever

Thanks. I understand and agree with the logical reason behind leaving timing at 22 deg. I was wondering if the car is octane limited at this point. If so, do you think an E50 mix would allow 2-3 more degrees of timing?

Negative. I run E50 at a very similar power level and run 22 degrees. More timing will just be hard on the bottom end for little power gain IMO.

JSH · 03-07-2024, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZL14ever

I was wondering if the car is octane limited at this point.

I've got a can of MS109 and would like to make a few pulls on it to see what it makes on say 24 degrees versus the current 22. I agree with Josh that every degree of advance increasingly beats the crap out of rods and pistons. But this engine is rated to 1400, so...

KingLT1 · 03-07-2024, 04:19 PM

That 1400hp is likely at the crank. At least that is how most companies rate engines. You are likely close to that now. At 17% drivetrain loss, 1400hp = 1162whp.

JSH · 03-07-2024, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingLT1

That 1400hp is likely at the crank. At least that is how most companies rate engines. You are likely close to that now. At 17% drivetrain loss, 1400hp = 1162whp.

I have not thought much about LMEs horsepower rating, but you're probably right. By the way, they email me asking for a video of the dyno because they know how much it made. I didn't see the dyno and haven't seen a video

I looked into this crank to wheel horsepower loss topic last year and I ended up thinking it would be closer to 12 or 13%

CamOnlyJabroni · 03-08-2024, 11:07 AM

What people often don't think about is tuners also have to take the owner into consideration. If it hurts the motor it is likely to always be called the "tuners fault." Does the owner read their plugs, log their car, do general maintenance? Things owners in the past would often do few nowadays have the know how to do themselves. Everyone wants the big hp with the stock reliability. That will never be a reality. Leaving a little bit of power out can leave a nice cushion for small mechanical issues. This is an observation and not aimed at anyone in particular.

I'm running the factory rods and crank in my C7Z that has been built for 10k miles now. It sees 24 degrees of timing by 3,400rpm and maxes out at 26. Engine runs like a top. Would I recommend it to someone that can't read data and turn a wrench? No. On the flip side the blower is still being ran in it's efficiency range where g/cyl still climb to the cams peak hp and running on DI only. A way many don't spend the money to do so.

Z OH 6 · 03-08-2024, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSH

I have not thought much about LMEs horsepower rating, but you're probably right. By the way, they email me asking for a video of the dyno because they know how much it made. I didn't see the dyno and haven't seen a video

I looked into this crank to wheel horsepower loss topic last year and I ended up thinking it would be closer to 12 or 13%

15% is typically a very accurate number for most modern auto transmissions, manuals will be slightly lower than that.

03-07-2024, 06:52 AM	#101
radz28 Petro-sexual Drives: Ultra-Grin Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Crazy Coast Posts: 15,201 View My Garage	Awesome numbers. I don't remember seeing if you're still at elevation, but I think I remember seeing LMP getting some more power out of a 2650. I don't remember if it was on E', and of course, wouldn't know the cam' specs', but the boost was similar, and your numbers are still great. __________________ '20 ZL1 Black "Fury" A10, PDR, Exposed CF Extractor Magnuson Magnum DI TVS2650R // RFBG // Soler 103 // TooHighPSI Port Injection // THPSI Billet Lid // FF // Katech Drop-In // PLM Heat Exchanger // ZLE Cradle bushings // BMR Chassis-Suspension Stuff // aFe Bars // Diode Dynamics LEDs // ACS Composites Guards // CF Dash // Aeroforce // tint // other stuffs

03-07-2024, 09:09 AM	#103
KingLT1 Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: 46804 Posts: 6,800	Nice results! Fwiw, Folks get way to worried about timing...my brother is the same way. 22 degrees is probably close for a setup like that. 24 would be absolute max imo. This isn't your average bolt-on or mild cam setup where guys are pushing 28-30degrees on Ethanol. Cylinder temps play a vital role in how you time an engine. Something making 1100+ vs 700 is going to have significantly higher cylinder temps. Aside from that it didn't hook before, so it sure as hell isn't going to hook now. So a degree or 2 of timing should be the least of concern here. lol __________________ 2016 NFG 1SS A8 Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA

03-07-2024, 04:19 PM	#109
KingLT1 Drives: 2016 1SS NFG A8 Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: 46804 Posts: 6,800	That 1400hp is likely at the crank. At least that is how most companies rate engines. You are likely close to that now. At 17% drivetrain loss, 1400hp = 1162whp. __________________ 2016 NFG 1SS A8 Options-2SS Leather/NPP Perf. mods-Whipple 2.9/Fuel System/Flex Fuel/103mm TB/Rotofab Big Gulp/Cat Deletes/Corsa NPP Per. times- 10.5 @ 137 w/ 1.8 60ft Full weight on 20's 1200DA

03-07-2024, 12:11 AM	#100
ZL14ever Drives: 2018 Camaro ZL1 A10 Join Date: Feb 2022 Location: Dubai, UAE Posts: 63	What 100 octane fuel are you using? did you try going higher than 22 deg timing? Nice results indeed

03-08-2024, 11:07 AM	#111
CamOnlyJabroni Drives: 19’ ZL1 A10 / 16’ C7Z M7 Join Date: Apr 2021 Location: Fort Wayne, IN Posts: 247	What people often don't think about is tuners also have to take the owner into consideration. If it hurts the motor it is likely to always be called the "tuners fault." Does the owner read their plugs, log their car, do general maintenance? Things owners in the past would often do few nowadays have the know how to do themselves. Everyone wants the big hp with the stock reliability. That will never be a reality. Leaving a little bit of power out can leave a nice cushion for small mechanical issues. This is an observation and not aimed at anyone in particular. I'm running the factory rods and crank in my C7Z that has been built for 10k miles now. It sees 24 degrees of timing by 3,400rpm and maxes out at 26. Engine runs like a top. Would I recommend it to someone that can't read data and turn a wrench? No. On the flip side the blower is still being ran in it's efficiency range where g/cyl still climb to the cams peak hp and running on DI only. A way many don't spend the money to do so.

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