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Old 06-19-2018, 08:40 AM   #1373
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Originally Posted by newmoon View Post
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My feelings are not hurt and this conversation was about 1/4 mile times. You want to bash the GT350 for not running 11s but dismiss that much more powerful prior and present Gen manual ZL1s also had/have the same problem, as did the prior Z28. If you want to bash a vehicle at least apply the same standards in comparing it to similar equipped models.

The problem with all the above 1/4 mile times is the Manual! Blame it on bog, driver error, track prep, manufacturer, etc, etc, they all have the same issue. Does that make them a less fun car, I don't think so, because you actually drive the car instead of computer nannies driving it for you.
We've already seen that that's not quite the case. While the GT350 struggles to get into the 11s (if at all) even with good launches, the ZL1 can get into the 11s easily with practice. Yes, there are nannies to overcome, but it's doable.

I don't see these two cars being in the same zipcode. It's not like a GT350 will keep up with a ZL1 M6 stock on the street, and even on the track. The ZL1 will dust it and every scenario. For what you get, the ZL1 is a great value. The GT350, not so much IMO. Objectively speaking, for the money, the GT350 should be a better performer.
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Old 06-19-2018, 08:56 AM   #1374
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Originally Posted by torqueaddict View Post
We've already seen that that's not quite the case. While the GT350 struggles to get into the 11s (if at all) even with good launches, the ZL1 can get into the 11s easily with practice. Yes, there are nannies to overcome, but it's doable.

I don't see these two cars being in the same zipcode. It's not like a GT350 will keep up with a ZL1 M6 stock on the street, and even on the track. The ZL1 will dust it and every scenario. For what you get, the ZL1 is a great value. The GT350, not so much IMO. Objectively speaking, for the money, the GT350 should be a better performer.
No doubt about it the ZL1 in either Manual or Auto is the faster car in all aspects! The only problem is this per MT.

"The R’s just more fun to drive. Again, I’m not sure how Ford Performance did it, but I think there’s a layer of pixie dust baked into the GT350R. I might call it a thing divine"
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Old 06-19-2018, 08:58 AM   #1375
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Originally Posted by torqueaddict View Post
We've already seen that that's not quite the case. While the GT350 struggles to get into the 11s (if at all) even with good launches, the ZL1 can get into the 11s easily with practice. Yes, there are nannies to overcome, but it's doable.

I don't see these two cars being in the same zipcode. It's not like a GT350 will keep up with a ZL1 M6 stock on the street, and even on the track. The ZL1 will dust it and every scenario. For what you get, the ZL1 is a great value. The GT350, not so much IMO. Objectively speaking, for the money, the GT350 should be a better performer.
It is true that when talking performance per dollar the GT350/R and Ford in general fall far short of what GM is offering in the Camaro at this time.

That said, there is more to a car than performance. Mechanical issues aside, the GT350 is a badass machine. If you haven't driven a car with a high redline and late onset power delivery, you(not speaking directly to you, I mean in general) are missing out and should treat yourself to the experience.

Prior to buying my M3, I had not clue on the thrill of such a driving experience and I have never felt a greater thrill than running my car from 4,000 to 8,3000 RPMs. I can only imagine how the GT350 with 100+ more horsepower must feel.

Sadly, I still think Ford failed on that car with its laundry list of issues and sky high price for what you get. Sad really, I would LOVE to own one, but without a lifetime warranty haha, it is a huge liability not worth the headaches. Coming from an M owner that just dropped thousands to replace his rod bearings, that statements speaks VOLUMES!
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Old 06-19-2018, 09:52 AM   #1376
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Originally Posted by newmoon View Post
No doubt about it the ZL1 in either Manual or Auto is the faster car in all aspects! The only problem is this per MT.

"The R’s just more fun to drive. Again, I’m not sure how Ford Performance did it, but I think there’s a layer of pixie dust baked into the GT350R. I might call it a thing divine"
If I was a automotive journalist given the ability to race the GT350 around a road course at 8,200 rpm (while vibrating violently) and then hand the keys back, I'd love it too. I just wouldn't want to actually own one. Too many issues with the engine that are going to be expensive after the warranty is gone.
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Old 06-19-2018, 10:05 AM   #1377
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It is true that when talking performance per dollar the GT350/R and Ford in general fall far short of what GM is offering in the Camaro at this time.

That said, there is more to a car than performance. Mechanical issues aside, the GT350 is a badass machine. If you haven't driven a car with a high redline and late onset power delivery, you(not speaking directly to you, I mean in general) are missing out and should treat yourself to the experience.

Prior to buying my M3, I had not clue on the thrill of such a driving experience and I have never felt a greater thrill than running my car from 4,000 to 8,3000 RPMs. I can only imagine how the GT350 with 100+ more horsepower must feel.

Sadly, I still think Ford failed on that car with its laundry list of issues and sky high price for what you get. Sad really, I would LOVE to own one, but without a lifetime warranty haha, it is a huge liability not worth the headaches. Coming from an M owner that just dropped thousands to replace his rod bearings, that statements speaks VOLUMES!
I think Ford was hoping for another run away hit like the Boss was..which to this day really doesn't have any unique or real problems that other cars don't have.

I think if they had gone with a stout CPC 5.2, kept it at a 7,500 RPM redline (and not the attention seeking 8,250) and refocused the money spent on the Voodoo on suspension and platform dynamics tuning..you'd have a car that was just as fast, even if it "only" had 500 HP.
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Old 06-19-2018, 10:46 AM   #1378
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I think Ford was hoping for another run away hit like the Boss was..which to this day really doesn't have any unique or real problems that other cars don't have.

I think if they had gone with a stout CPC 5.2, kept it at a 7,500 RPM redline (and not the attention seeking 8,250) and refocused the money spent on the Voodoo on suspension and platform dynamics tuning..you'd have a car that was just as fast, even if it "only" had 500 HP.
I agree completely. They shot too high, bragged about why nobody else ever made such a large FPC, and ignored why they didn't hahaha.

Blaq has said the same thing about skipping the FPC, spending the money more wisely, and creating a better all around vehicle and not a 'look at me' approach. I guess hindsight is always 20/20, but the logic there is quite obvious.

I still think it is cool they tried, still one of a kind. Just wouldn't want to own one of of warranty and I am not a warranty guy either.
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Old 06-19-2018, 11:26 AM   #1379
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Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife View Post
I think Ford was hoping for another run away hit like the Boss was..which to this day really doesn't have any unique or real problems that other cars don't have.

I think if they had gone with a stout CPC 5.2, kept it at a 7,500 RPM redline (and not the attention seeking 8,250) and refocused the money spent on the Voodoo on suspension and platform dynamics tuning..you'd have a car that was just as fast, even if it "only" had 500 HP.
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I would guess that Ford considers the GT350 a huge success overall. The car garners incredible praise throughout the automotive world, and has been compared to the very best oversea offerings. Sales are strong, demand is strong, and now an updated 2019 model will likely increase interest even more. They don't have to offer discounts to move the cars, actually the opposite. If anything it is likely a bigger hit for them than the Boss.

The only stumbling block they may run into is the introduction of the GT500.
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Old 06-19-2018, 12:18 PM   #1380
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Originally Posted by newmoon View Post
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would guess that Ford considers the GT350 a huge success overall. The car garners incredible praise throughout the automotive world, and has been compared to the very best oversea offerings. Sales are strong, demand is strong, and now an updated 2019 model will likely increase interest even more. They don't have to offer discounts to move the cars, actually the opposite. If anything it is likely a bigger hit for them than the Boss.

The only stumbling block they may run into is the introduction of the GT500.
Have you gone on car gurus and seen how many gt350's are sitting on lots?
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Old 06-19-2018, 12:55 PM   #1381
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Have you gone on car gurus and seen how many gt350's are sitting on lots?
LOL, Fake News!
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Old 06-19-2018, 05:05 PM   #1382
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No doubt about it the ZL1 in either Manual or Auto is the faster car in all aspects! The only problem is this per MT.

"The R’s just more fun to drive. Again, I’m not sure how Ford Performance did it, but I think there’s a layer of pixie dust baked into the GT350R. I might call it a thing divine"
Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, they made this comment only because the GT350 lost in everything so they had to give it something? I mean come on dude. Let's be rational. There is nothing magical about any of these cars. And there for sure is nothing magical about being in a much slower car that costs the same amount of money (not even going to get into markups at this time) as a much faster car. It was a statement made so that the Mustang boys couldn't say that the testing was biased. So here, the Camaro beat the Mustang in everything...so let's just say that we prefer the Mustang...

If any of that statement was true, then there would be collected data to back it up. It was an opinion that has no basis in anything realistic except for the imagination of the 2 people who made the comment. Nobody can prove that the majority of people actually prefer the Mustang.
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Old 06-19-2018, 05:14 PM   #1383
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That said, there is more to a car than performance. Mechanical issues aside, the GT350 is a badass machine. If you haven't driven a car with a high redline and late onset power delivery, you(not speaking directly to you, I mean in general) are missing out and should treat yourself to the experience.

Prior to buying my M3, I had not clue on the thrill of such a driving experience and I have never felt a greater thrill than running my car from 4,000 to 8,3000 RPMs. I can only imagine how the GT350 with 100+ more horsepower must feel.
I have to disagree. I had my 15 GT tuned to rev past 7500 RPMs. It was fun un that car only because there was no power down low and the only time it felt fast was when revving it high. It is placebo. If you could feel the Mustang's 4000 RPM pull except from, let's say, 2500 RPMs, then you wouldn't be impressed with the Mustang. For example, My GT pulled hard from 4000-7500 RPMs. My SS pulled hard from 2000-6500 RPMs. That means I had 3500 RPMs of power in my GT vs 4500 RPMs of power in my SS. That made my SS feel like it actually had more pull since it was pulling hard for much longer. Same with my current cars. My HC redline is at like 5700 RPMs and I think it actually tops out at 6250 RPMs. Yet it pulls soo hard that you'd think you're revving much higher. I swear it was going crazy to the point where I had to look down twice to make sure I wasn't gonna hit the rev limiter. It is all just a placebo in the Mustang. Most of that feel is because although it is a 7500+ total RPM, the first 4000 is just blah but you're still moving so it feels like it is much more when it isn't. Sorry but that is the best way I can describe it.
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Old 06-19-2018, 05:18 PM   #1384
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I am not trying to find fault or hypocrisy in your posts, if it comes off that way I apologize. Just trying to find your logic and see if it would apply to all makes and you confirmed it would by stating that if GM made a 6th Z like they did in 15 you'd criticize that too.
It's all good. There's no need for you to apologize.
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My honest answer is that I think I have been pretty clear that it has to be auto equipped mustangs to run good times. I don't think like the others I have criticized the ZL1 for it's performance metrics. Why do I not call them out, part of it is I only like arguing with you lol and the other part is sometimes there arguments to me are so far out there they don't warrant a response and you and others take care of them nicely lol.
Well you certainly give me a good fight, lol!! I've toned it down quite a bit from back when I was actually bashing the Mustangs. So at least we're having some thought provoking conversations these days. You always make really good points and stand your ground. And you're consistent. So I can't come down on you, lol!! You're alright.
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Now back to the launch control, GM states the ZL1 should do the 1/4 in 11.8 for the 6M. (Per the all the facts post by Mr Wyndham going to go with that is from the press release) GM is usually pretty conservative on their estimates, so one would think that owners have hit that mark. Yet according to the Camaro6 fast list, only 1 M6 car has hit that mark and beat it. There are other experienced drag racers here, that can't get close to it because of the "bog". The car is protecting itself and I think some people have an issue with that. They can't launch it the way they think/know. Now I understand why GM did it, I don't blame them for wanting to protect themselves but from reading the complaints on it it does seem to not allow the car to perform to it's potential and that seems to have some owners mad.
I would love a shot at launching a M6 ZL1. I think if you feather the clutch slightly more than normal and wait for the tires to catch, and then instead of nailing it to the floor do more of a gradual acceleration then you won't have this "issue". You won't do an 11.4 like the A10 does, but you should be able to do a high 11 consistently and easily. The "bog issue" seems to come when people are slamming the pedal to the floor. I'm guessing GM programmed that feature in so that people on a track coming around a corner won't nail it, spin out, and wipe the car into oblivion. This is all just what I think tho. But again, it was programmed for a reason.
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Old 06-19-2018, 06:01 PM   #1385
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Come on with the Snake already. A10. 800 plus HP. With tuning and pulley/intake upgrades. 900 hp easy. OMG. Okay. I need to stop.
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Old 06-19-2018, 06:52 PM   #1386
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Come on with the Snake already. A10. 800 plus HP. With tuning and pulley/intake upgrades. 900 hp easy. OMG. Okay. I need to stop.
Woo Hoo!!!
Hope it doesn’t make axle snapping noise....
It will definitely make a lot of exhaust noise tho.....
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