[AZ_1LE]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Firstly: there is no need to stagger brake pads torque wise on 1le as the system is designed for the same pads front and rear. No matter what pads you choose to run.

Secondly: if you felt any type of fade with oem Ferodo pads it is NOT the pads. It could be your fluid or perhaps pads havent been bedded in correctly. I run stockers on a variety of tracks in top groups (instructor/solo) up to 45min stints with zero fade.

Lastly: xp8s on the front are way too soft for the weight of the car. Xp10 is minimum imo but frankly it doesnt offer any improvement performance wise over a stock oem Ferodo as their characteristics are very similar. If for some reason you prefer Carbotechs over stock Ferodos then run xp10 front AND rear for proper braking bias.

Hope this helps. Cheers!

Yea, not true.

Compounds are meant to start working at certain temperatures (you can find this info on Carbotech's and GLoc's websites). If you think the front brakes operate at the same temperatures as the rears, you're..wrong.

If you put XP12's on the front and rear, the rear pads will probably last 6x longer than the fronts, and it's because of how much harder the fronts are working.

I posted earlier about how I run XP10's up front and XP8's in the back for tracks that are less harsh on brakes, and it has worked out perfectly on this car. Running 10's in the back I'd probably be lucky to see the same amount of pad transfer as what I was seeing on the fronts. It is NOT advised to run the same pad compound front and rear.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by AZ_1LE

Yea, not true.

Compounds are meant to start working at certain temperatures (you can find this info on Carbotech's and GLoc's websites). If you think the front brakes operate at the same temperatures as the rears, you're..wrong.

If you put XP12's on the front and rear, the rear pads will probably last 6x longer than the fronts, and it's because of how much harder the fronts are working.

I posted earlier about how I run XP10's up front and XP8's in the back for tracks that are less harsh on brakes, and it has worked out perfectly on this car. Running 10's in the back I'd probably be lucky to see the same amount of pad transfer as what I was seeing on the fronts. It is NOT advised to run the same pad compound front and rear.

My point was that the car has been set up from a factory BIAS wise to run the same pad F and R.

Not only an SS 1le but the same goes for a zl1 and zle.
If you dont know what a bias is or what it does to a car's handling, or why many race cars have adjustable bias by a driver: you will benefit from looking it up.

If you prefer more stability and understeer on entry, there is nothing wrong with your set up. But it is not optimal for car's intended handling. Cheers!

PS when you look up various pad charts dont focus only on temp ranges, but also pay a very close attention to torque characteristics.

[RUQWIKR]

Front vs. rear wear is very dependent on track, driving style, use of PTM, etc. PTM can chew threw the rears quickly if used on one of the lower / more invasive settings.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by RUQWIKR

Front vs. rear wear is very dependent on track, driving style, use of PTM, etc. PTM can chew threw the rears quickly if used on one of the lower / more invasive settings.

If a car is over driven a Stabilitrak will use any of the FOUR brakes depending on travel direction and depending on whether a car is over or under steering.
All modern stability system use this principle now.
Just fyi.

[Whitespeed]

Originally Posted by AZ_1LE

Yea, not true.

Compounds are meant to start working at certain temperatures (you can find this info on Carbotech's and GLoc's websites). If you think the front brakes operate at the same temperatures as the rears, you're..wrong.

If you put XP12's on the front and rear, the rear pads will probably last 6x longer than the fronts, and it's because of how much harder the fronts are working.

I posted earlier about how I run XP10's up front and XP8's in the back for tracks that are less harsh on brakes, and it has worked out perfectly on this car. Running 10's in the back I'd probably be lucky to see the same amount of pad transfer as what I was seeing on the fronts. It is NOT advised to run the same pad compound front and rear.

Braking is a dynamic process. While braking, there is load transfer on to the front axle and off of the rear axle. This is due to the forces applied to the chassis by the torque of the braking wheels, and happens even in a car with no suspension. The harder the braking the greater the load transfer. As the load increases on the front axle, the friction between the front tires and the road increases. Consequently, the front brakes can do more and more of the work to slow the car. The inverse happens at the rear axle.

You need the maximum combination of front AND rear brake torque to get that load transfer to the front in the first place. A properly designed brake system will have taken this into account and appropriate caliper piston area, rotor diameter and pad coefficient of friction will have been selected to achieve this. Typically the same pad coefficient of friction is chosen for the front and rear as part of this design process. Consequently, installing a pad with a significantly lower coefficient of friction in the rear can result in rear brakes that are unable to generate adequate brake torque for sufficient load transfer to the front axle. Therefore, there is less friction between the front tires and the road, and the front brakes will more easily overpower the traction available from the front tires. This is of course safer than having the rear wheels lock first. But if you swing the balance too far to the front, the front wheels will lock up far too easily and braking distance is made significantly worse.

So, saying that it's not advisable to run the same compound front and rear as a blanket statement is asking for trouble. Now, it just so happens that the XP10's and XP8's have a very similar coefficient of friction, and will likely not negatively influence brake balance if run together on the front and rear axles. As far as there being a benefit with respect to the temperature range, what evidence is there that the rears run cooler to the point of requiring a different temperature range? Sure they do less work, but the pads and rotors are significantly smaller and have less air flow. And, why does it mater if the rear pads last longer, so long as they generate adequate brake torque?

Nigel

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Whitespeed

Braking is a dynamic process. While braking, there is load transfer on to the front axle and off of the rear axle. This is due to the forces applied to the chassis by the torque of the braking wheels, and happens even in a car with no suspension. The harder the braking the greater the load transfer. As the load increases on the front axle, the friction between the front tires and the road increases. Consequently, the front brakes can do more and more of the work to slow the car. The inverse happens at the rear axle.

You need the maximum combination of front AND rear brake torque to get that load transfer to the front in the first place. A properly designed brake system will have taken this into account and selected caliper piston area, rotor diameter and pad friction coefficient into consideration to achieve this. Typically the same pad coefficient of friction is chosen for the front and rear as part of this design process. Consequently, installing a pad with a significantly lower coefficient of friction in the rear can result in rear brakes that are unable to generate adequate brake torque for sufficient load transfer to the front axle. Therefore, there is less friction between the front tires and the road, and the front brakes will more easily overpower the traction available from the front tires. This is of course safer than having the rear wheels lock first. But if you swing the balance too far to the front, the front wheels will lock up far too easily and braking distance is made significantly worse.

So, saying that it's not advisable to run the same compound front and rear as a blanket statement is asking for trouble. Now, it just so happens that the XP10's and XP8's have a very similar coefficient of friction, and will likely not negatively influence brake balance if run together on the front and rear axles. As far as there being a benefit with respect to the temperature range, what evidence is there that the rears run cooler to the point of requiring a different temperature range? Sure they do less work, but the pads and rotors are significantly smaller and have less air flow. And, why does it mater if the rear pads last longer, so long as they generate adequate brake torque?

Nigel

Exactly and precisely: +1!
Excellently articulated piece of writing.

[RUQWIKR]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

If a car is over driven a Stabilitrak will use any of the FOUR brakes depending on travel direction and depending on whether a car is over or under steering.
All modern stability system use this principle now.
Just fyi.

I understand, but, my buddy with a ZL1 using PTM in Dry and Sport went through four set of rear pads (!) to one set of fronts on a tight track. I think is was using too little right foot control and depending too much on PTM to combat wheel spin.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by RUQWIKR

I understand, but, my buddy with a ZL1 using PTM in Dry and Sport went through four set of rear pads (!) to one set of fronts on a tight track. I think is was using too little right foot control and depending too much on PTM to combat wheel spin.

Yep that can happen if a driver leans completely on Stabilitrak to correct driver errors. My guess is he was understeering on corner entries into oblivion

[carguy55]

This front vs rear pad material discussion is going on now on the FB 1LE R page. So far some people like to stagger the material and have no issues, while others keep the same front and back material and have no issues.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by carguy55

This front vs rear pad material discussion is going on now on the FB 1LE R page. So far some people like to stagger the material and have no issues, while others keep the same front and back material and have no issues.

Not surprised. If somebody prefers more understeer on entry then "lesser" pad in the rear will do the trick.
But to suggest that running the same compound F and R is bad advice (on a Camaro) is plain nonsense.

[MatthewAMEL]

I have been running my 1LE on Track and AutoX for more than 2 years now.


7th set of tires, 3rd set of rotors, 6th set of pads.


I can now proclaim with a completely straight face...the OEM pads are magic.


They are the finest 'all around' pad I have ever run.


Yes, there are pads that stop 'faster', but nothing I have ever run matches the OEM.


Daytona in July? No problem. Sebring? No problem. AutoX? Work good.


And while they generate dust, the dust does not eat the wheel finish.

[RUQWIKR]

Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL

I have been running my 1LE on Track and AutoX for more than 2 years now.


7th set of tires, 3rd set of rotors, 6th set of pads.


I can now proclaim with a completely straight face...the OEM pads are magic.


They are the finest 'all around' pad I have ever run.


Yes, there are pads that stop 'faster', but nothing I have ever run matches the OEM.


Daytona in July? No problem. Sebring? No problem. AutoX? Work good.


And while they generate dust, the dust does not eat the wheel finish.

I second that...ran lots of events in 2017 with J6M brakes and stock pads. Same compound is used for J6H (ZL1) brakes - ran those for lots of events for 2018. Rotors are reasonable, pads are cheap, especially compared to lots of other pads out there for either brake system. My seals looked perfect front and rear with both braking systems, and I am aggressive on braking in a good way on track.

For 2019, playing with something different up front. Hint - they weigh a bit over 19# less per rotor than ZL1 rotors, work with the stock J6H calipers, use a (different) stock GM pads, and use J6H hats that I tweaked a little. Plus, a little bit of aero stuff on my SS 1LE, too. A let you know how I like it all later...

Oh, I know all about the CCB’s are good / not good for the track. I just like to try things and tweak. Got a new set of J6H rotors on the shelf and plenty of stock and low mile pads, so, in no time I can be back with steel fronts. Once again, it’s the engineer in me and the constant mods I’ve always done to cars. Plus, a vendor told me only their hats work and you can’t get anything else to work and have to buy it all from them. Uh, wrong...

I can create another thread about this science experiment to not derail the stock / track pad good discussion ongoing...

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL

I have been running my 1LE on Track and AutoX for more than 2 years now.


7th set of tires, 3rd set of rotors, 6th set of pads.


I can now proclaim with a completely straight face...the OEM pads are magic.


They are the finest 'all around' pad I have ever run.


Yes, there are pads that stop 'faster', but nothing I have ever run matches the OEM.


Daytona in July? No problem. Sebring? No problem. AutoX? Work good.


And while they generate dust, the dust does not eat the wheel finish.

+1! PLUS as mentioned above they run cold, dont cook seals and dont discolor calipers. And dont require SRF

[FNxR3DNECK]

Originally Posted by RUQWIKR

I second that...ran lots of events in 2017 with J6M brakes and stock pads. Same compound is used for J6H (ZL1) brakes - ran those for lots of events for 2018. Rotors are reasonable, pads are cheap, especially compared to lots of other pads out there for either brake system. My seals looked perfect front and rear with both braking systems, and I am aggressive on braking in a good way on track.

For 2019, playing with something different up front. Hint - they weigh a bit over 19# less per rotor than ZL1 rotors, work with the stock J6H calipers, use a (different) stock GM pads, and use J6H hats that I tweaked a little. Plus, a little bit of aero stuff on my SS 1LE, too. A let you know how I like it all later...

Oh, I know all about the CCB’s are good / not good for the track. I just like to try things and tweak. Got a new set of J6H rotors on the shelf and plenty of stock and low mile pads, so, in no time I can be back with steel fronts. Once again, it’s the engineer in me and the constant mods I’ve always done to cars. Plus, a vendor told me only their hats work and you can’t get anything else to work and have to buy it all from them. Uh, wrong...

I can create another thread about this science experiment to not derail the stock / track pad good discussion ongoing...

Carbon Ceramics, G3Rs, and full ZLE Aero on an SS 1LE???? Yea..... we're gonna need a thread dedicated to that lol other than the CCBs that's pretty much the build I want (but can't afford).