Max HP with bolt one no tune

1roadking · 01-10-2018, 04:42 PM

What’s the max HP with just bolt one and no tune? Also, what would you add? Cold air intake, exhaust, hi flow filter? I would love to match or beat a stock hellcat in HP, really 750HP at the crank to match the LT5 would be awesome. I don’t want to void my warranty though and I would like to keep the drivability. My cars a 2017 April production with A10.

TheElementalCashew · 01-10-2018, 04:53 PM

All you'll be able to get away with without a tune are CAI, catback, maybe ported throttle body, and maybe headers. Those won't get you anywhere near 750hp crank though. With the A10, you may edge out a stock Hellcat.

JRS · 01-10-2018, 04:57 PM

I would say the max hp you would get at the crank would be 675 hp with just bolt ons and no tune. If you were looking to add hp without a tune your going to be very limited because there is only so much you can do without the computer going to the limits of it's stock tune before you would get a check engine light or it running worse to counteract the add ons. The only things you could do before a tune is increasing the flow of the engine which may still cause problems because the computer might see to much flow and then make it run poorly but you could port the throttle body, put freer flowing exhaust and headers on, port the heads and supercharger but definitely not a cam without a tune. Sadly the best way to increase power on these cars is parts and tune because the two work hand and hand. I would look for a dealer that would work with you if you do tune your car for warranty purposes. Just my thoughts!

SJFGTO · 01-10-2018, 06:46 PM

Any mod that positively impacts the flow of air/fuel to make a meaningful difference in usable horsepower will require a tune. Period. I would not be comfortable running my engine hard with headers without a tune, nor would I want to spend that much money for headers but leave horsepower on the table with the stock tune.

Can'tHave2MuchHP · 01-10-2018, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJFGTO

Any mod that positively impacts the flow of air/fuel to make a meaningful difference in usable horsepower will require a tune. Period. I would not be comfortable running my engine hard with headers without a tune, nor would I want to spend that much money for headers but leave horsepower on the table with the stock tune.

I was going to write my own post but this is spot on.

IneedAZ · 01-10-2018, 08:26 PM

Perhaps wait for Chevy Performance to start selling the bolt on items and tune they have been testing over the past year. They do claim on the video keeps your warranty if purchased and installed by Chevy.

Slickcas · 01-11-2018, 01:35 AM

With all the torque management software you could probably bolt on all kinds of stuff and it would make only a little bit a difference. So after a CAI you’re just about done. As the torque management software will keep your power output about the same and keep the engine in a safe air fuel ratio.

So a Gen5 ZL1 could run a little over drive pulley and the Computer would adjust the air fuel ratio and give you more power on stock tune. JRE proved this. The Gen6 will actually cut power back down closer to stock output. Pain in the butt for people not wanting to tune the car.

URBAN LEGEND · 01-11-2018, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slickcas

With all the torque management software you could probably bolt on all kinds of stuff and it would make only a little bit a difference. So after a CAI you’re just about done. As the torque management software will keep your power output about the same and keep the engine in a safe air fuel ratio.

So a Gen5 ZL1 could run a little over drive pulley and the Computer would adjust the air fuel ratio and give you more power on stock tune. JRE proved this. The Gen6 will actually cut power back down closer to stock output. Pain in the butt for people not wanting to tune the car.

However, GM sold you 70 more ponies from gen 5 to gen 6.

Slickcas · 01-11-2018, 04:03 AM

Was going to get a 18 ZL1 but life (garage not done) got in the way. So now waiting to order a 19’ ZL1 Blue A10 here in a few months. I will be going with the CAI cold air intake with no tune for a bit lol. My 12’ will be my fast Camaro anyway.

Hheatt_ZL1 · 01-11-2018, 06:41 AM

I did the 2" ARH with 3" off road X pipe, no cats, stock muffler, dry CAI (ROTO FAB) , 9.10 lower pulley w/ innovators harmonic balancer and a hand ported TB.....670hp no tune. Finally going to get it tuned next Wensday.

S.T.A.R. · 01-11-2018, 07:01 AM

Hheatt, at the rear wheels?

kwav8r · 01-11-2018, 07:51 AM

There's no getting around the stock tune/TQ Mgmt in these cars.

You can squeeze a little bit more out with a ported TB/SC snout and headers/catback but, the computer isn't optimized for that and the TM isn't going to let you access all of the power you could achieve. Plus it's going to throw codes.

I'm also on the fence about the Chevy Performance offerings. While you may be able to piecemeal the parts, I don't think GM is going to create multiple tunes for different parts combinations. I have no proof or data to back this up but I just don't see the GM going through the effort to do so, not to mention the warranty work issues that would occur with multiple part/tune packages (just imagine the nightmare with dealership service personnel to know/understand the difference b/w tunes when some can't even give you a straight answer on rear diff. fluid). Having said that, I am curious to see what GM does but I'm not holding my breath. If they prove me wrong I'll eat crow.

Also, look real close at the after market CAIs compared to the stock intake box. The stock box already has a plenum for cold air. Most of the aftermarkets do not and frankly I don't think they are worth the cost. Some folks will call this heresy but, I just don't see the cost justification for a "sealed" (foam rubber up against the hood) box with a larger filter and new tube being worth $500+. Sure, it'll make the SC whine louder and reduce airflow restriction but I think you can get away with increasing airflow by using a replacement HP air filter (i.e. K&N, Green Filter) for $60-70. While there are some sealed box CAIs with a plenum they'll run you $700+.

In the end, I think the only way you are going to see any real bang for the buck is a prepackaged after market tune, custom tune after installing new parts or buying a drag pack tune from GM mated to the entire parts package (i.e. parts and safety equip). Two out of three of those will void the warranty, the last one is going to be uber expensive.

My .02, feel free to pick apart everyone.

Badmojo · 01-11-2018, 08:19 AM

Are there any details beyond the SEMA YouTube video on the GM Performance Pack?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JamesNoBrakes · 01-11-2018, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1roadking

I would love to match or beat a stock hellcat

Just go around a turn.

01-10-2018, 04:42 PM	#1
1roadking Drives: 2017 ZL1 silver A10 Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Loudon NH Posts: 135	Max HP with bolt one no tune What’s the max HP with just bolt one and no tune? Also, what would you add? Cold air intake, exhaust, hi flow filter? I would love to match or beat a stock hellcat in HP, really 750HP at the crank to match the LT5 would be awesome. I don’t want to void my warranty though and I would like to keep the drivability. My cars a 2017 April production with A10.

01-10-2018, 04:53 PM	#2
TheElementalCashew Drives: 2017 ZL1 Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: NH Posts: 278	All you'll be able to get away with without a tune are CAI, catback, maybe ported throttle body, and maybe headers. Those won't get you anywhere near 750hp crank though. With the A10, you may edge out a stock Hellcat. __________________ 2017 Camaro ZL1, Nightfall Gray Metallic: M6, PDR, exposed CF, navigation, sunroof Mods: Rotofab CAI, Tony Mamo TB, Kooks headers (green cats), 18% LPE lower pulley, E85/FlexFuel sensor. BC Forged RS41s (19x10, 19x12)/PS4S, R888R (305/325) Dyno: E40: 661whp/703wtq, 93: 633whp/674wtq

01-10-2018, 06:46 PM	#4
SJFGTO Oh Oh it's Friday Night! Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE Nightfall Gray Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Walton Woods Posts: 1,061	Any mod that positively impacts the flow of air/fuel to make a meaningful difference in usable horsepower will require a tune. Period. I would not be comfortable running my engine hard with headers without a tune, nor would I want to spend that much money for headers but leave horsepower on the table with the stock tune. __________________ 2018 Camaro ZL1 1LE NFG; ARH 2” headers, catless mids, ARH full exhaust, Lingenfelter 18% lower pulley, ATI Harmonic Balancer, Roto-fab CAI, EE-catch can, TM ported TB, NX Lid, BMR strut tower brace. Aeroforce dual pod interceptor gauges. Tuned by Vengeance Racing!!! 644 HP @ 6250 rpm / 689 trq @ 3660 rpm Four that wanna own me Two that wanna stone me One says she's a friend of mine...

01-10-2018, 08:26 PM	#6
IneedAZ Drives: 2017 ZL1 A10 & 2021 BMW M340i x Dr Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tampa Posts: 5,110 View My Garage	Perhaps wait for Chevy Performance to start selling the bolt on items and tune they have been testing over the past year. They do claim on the video keeps your warranty if purchased and installed by Chevy. __________________ Sold 2012 2LT RS 12.3@112 old setup Sold 1967 Camaro Pro Street. Ran 10's mild BB on NOS. 2017 HyperBlue ZL1 A10 Born 3/17/17Delivered 4/08/17 2020 Build: Mag2650, BTR Stage2, NW103, BG, 14% lower, 90mm upper, ARH 2" Long system w/no cats, SW Legend mufflers. 807hp/762tq on 93 gas and 848hp/792tq on e47 Sold 2018 (Go Mango) Dodge Charger Daytona 392 Daily Driver Daily Driver 2021 BMW M340i Xdrive

01-11-2018, 08:19 AM	#13
Badmojo aka BeastZL1 Drives: 2019 Camaro ZL1 1LE, 2004 Cobra Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: NC Posts: 1,103	Are there any details beyond the SEMA YouTube video on the GM Performance Pack? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ 2019 Camaro ZL1 1LE Racing for ALS Youtube Link

01-10-2018, 04:57 PM	#3
JRS Drives: 16 camaro M6/ 18 ZL1 camaro A10 Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: MD/PA LINE Posts: 202	I would say the max hp you would get at the crank would be 675 hp with just bolt ons and no tune. If you were looking to add hp without a tune your going to be very limited because there is only so much you can do without the computer going to the limits of it's stock tune before you would get a check engine light or it running worse to counteract the add ons. The only things you could do before a tune is increasing the flow of the engine which may still cause problems because the computer might see to much flow and then make it run poorly but you could port the throttle body, put freer flowing exhaust and headers on, port the heads and supercharger but definitely not a cam without a tune. Sadly the best way to increase power on these cars is parts and tune because the two work hand and hand. I would look for a dealer that would work with you if you do tune your car for warranty purposes. Just my thoughts!

01-11-2018, 01:35 AM	#7
Slickcas Drives: 12' 2SS/RS LS3 IBM Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Odin. ILL Posts: 487 View My Garage	With all the torque management software you could probably bolt on all kinds of stuff and it would make only a little bit a difference. So after a CAI you’re just about done. As the torque management software will keep your power output about the same and keep the engine in a safe air fuel ratio. So a Gen5 ZL1 could run a little over drive pulley and the Computer would adjust the air fuel ratio and give you more power on stock tune. JRE proved this. The Gen6 will actually cut power back down closer to stock output. Pain in the butt for people not wanting to tune the car.

01-11-2018, 04:03 AM	#9
Slickcas Drives: 12' 2SS/RS LS3 IBM Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Odin. ILL Posts: 487 View My Garage	Was going to get a 18 ZL1 but life (garage not done) got in the way. So now waiting to order a 19’ ZL1 Blue A10 here in a few months. I will be going with the CAI cold air intake with no tune for a bit lol. My 12’ will be my fast Camaro anyway.

01-11-2018, 06:41 AM	#10
Hheatt_ZL1 Drives: 2018 ZL1 6spd Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Al Posts: 18	I did the 2" ARH with 3" off road X pipe, no cats, stock muffler, dry CAI (ROTO FAB) , 9.10 lower pulley w/ innovators harmonic balancer and a hand ported TB.....670hp no tune. Finally going to get it tuned next Wensday.

01-11-2018, 07:01 AM	#11
S.T.A.R. Drives: 18'-1LE Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: SHENANDOAH, PA Posts: 430	Hheatt, at the rear wheels?

01-11-2018, 07:51 AM	#12
kwav8r Flyin NOE Drives: 2018 ZL1 (A10) Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: TX Posts: 949	There's no getting around the stock tune/TQ Mgmt in these cars. You can squeeze a little bit more out with a ported TB/SC snout and headers/catback but, the computer isn't optimized for that and the TM isn't going to let you access all of the power you could achieve. Plus it's going to throw codes. I'm also on the fence about the Chevy Performance offerings. While you may be able to piecemeal the parts, I don't think GM is going to create multiple tunes for different parts combinations. I have no proof or data to back this up but I just don't see the GM going through the effort to do so, not to mention the warranty work issues that would occur with multiple part/tune packages (just imagine the nightmare with dealership service personnel to know/understand the difference b/w tunes when some can't even give you a straight answer on rear diff. fluid). Having said that, I am curious to see what GM does but I'm not holding my breath. If they prove me wrong I'll eat crow. Also, look real close at the after market CAIs compared to the stock intake box. The stock box already has a plenum for cold air. Most of the aftermarkets do not and frankly I don't think they are worth the cost. Some folks will call this heresy but, I just don't see the cost justification for a "sealed" (foam rubber up against the hood) box with a larger filter and new tube being worth $500+. Sure, it'll make the SC whine louder and reduce airflow restriction but I think you can get away with increasing airflow by using a replacement HP air filter (i.e. K&N, Green Filter) for $60-70. While there are some sealed box CAIs with a plenum they'll run you $700+. In the end, I think the only way you are going to see any real bang for the buck is a prepackaged after market tune, custom tune after installing new parts or buying a drag pack tune from GM mated to the entire parts package (i.e. parts and safety equip). Two out of three of those will void the warranty, the last one is going to be uber expensive. My .02, feel free to pick apart everyone.

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