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Old 04-22-2021, 12:55 PM   #57
Norm Peterson
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Originally Posted by Alpha1BC View Post
I can understand being used to the lever brake, that's what I drove with for my first 10 years of driving manual as well. I'd still argue that EPB is hands down a way better piece of technology and would much rather have it on my cars, though. On the downside you can't pull it to slide around a corner anymore and can't physically feel then engagement
Technology for its own sake seems to be the big attraction these days, but I'm going to suggest that using more technology to solve the same old things in some new way that necessarily involves electronics doesn't really make it better overall.

The reason most often given for e-PB is that it's simpler to run a few wires than mechanical cables, and easier to hide another module than design around the space requirements of a real physical lever. Not because it's functionally any better (or even as good).


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but on the upside it can apply itself automatically if it senses the vehicle starting to roll and no one is around, it can automatically cycle itself to keep it from getting seized when the driver doesn't regularly use it, can automatically release when the driver forgets to and drives off, can modulate itself to stop the car in emergency situations, can be applied by other modules in different failure states, and can even self-diagnose to an extent and alert the driver if something fails with the system instead of finding out after it's too late.
None of those items are of any value to me, and I really wouldn't want my car's e-PB deciding to apply itself without it being me telling it to apply. All this does is add complexity to what was supposed to be a system with the fewest possible failure modes.


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On top of all that it's not a new technology anymore and seems to have had most of the initial kinks worked out and has been a well-integrated and appreciated technology upgrade in the last 5+ years I've spend in Camaros and other cars with it.
Compared to the length of time I've been driving, it's very much "wet-behind-the-ears" new.


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Same sort of thing for hill start assist. I was taught initially how to do it by roasting the clutch, later learned that's a no-no (especially in high-power cars) and learned how to launch on hills using heel-toe instead. I'd still take HSA any day because it's just just as good if not better than trying to do it manually, it's simpler to use
No better or simpler than being able to do it all by yourself. Once you've got your timing and coordination down, anyway.

It's something of an insult for (in this case Chevy) to force a driver with decades of MT driving experience to have things like these done for him out of fear for the "what-if's" just like he's a 17 year old with his first brand-new driver's license. Catering to fear doesn't make for better drivers . . . it arguably does the opposite for when the chips are down and all the driver has left is his own skill set and the accuracy of his reactions.


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I try not to be too opinionated on here and apologize if I'm coming across as such, but it really grinds my gears when there are complaints against newer systems like EPB and HSA that really only boil down to "I'm not used to it so I don't like it," since that ultimately can kill technological progress if enough people do it.
Understood on the matter of opinions being what they are. But losing a step here and there off of your own skill set by handing more and more over to "the technology" may well be the wrong kind of "progress". Over-reliance on technology is already a discussion topic in the world of commercial aviation, where pilots have far more intensive training than the average car driver ever gets.


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Old 04-22-2021, 01:06 PM   #58
Norm Peterson
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Originally Posted by Alpha1BC View Post
EPB is definitely not one of those features in it's current state, though. The increased functionality greatly outweighs the minimal cons their are. You have to consider the more obscure use cases where something's failed. The everyday person won't necessarily see that condition, but if it does ever happen you'll be super glad it's there. Just using it as a parking brake sure it might be a little worse, but that's not the whole picture by a long shot. It's <5s for the EPB to apply so it's not like it's an excruciatingly long wait, and not having the tactile feedback of the lever or pedal is one of those "I'm not used to it so I don't like it" arguments. Basically every other system on modern cars (windows, HVAC, throttle, ignitions, engine spark, even brakes and steering on some cars) are controlled by the driver manipulating some form of electronic switch to control something else, so it's kind of interesting that people are so against doing the same with something as simple as a park brake.
Not everybody wants their cars to do things that they can fully handle in real time, and you should not assume that everybody should be willing to continually adapt themselves to their cars every time something new comes down the driver-assist technology pike. Last I understood, it was the people who owned and controlled the cars, not the other way around.


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