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Old 04-26-2017, 08:37 AM   #29
Lonewolf583
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Yeah, that's fair enough. I think alot of it has to do with me trying to readjust my braking style for these pads. The secondary behavior of the car was to chatter the hell out of the front end. Hence the OP. Compared to the R6 the HPS was a pretty wimpy pad so I was able to hit them hard and late with no ABS engagement for about 2 years of seat time.

I'll have to drive around it for now and reassess once I get the big boy tires on. The 275 Toyo was just a bit of a dry run for American Iron...and is just not enough tire for what I want to do with this car and certainly not enough tire for the pad. In AI the gen5 is pretty neutered anyways. Will probably try ST2. Vorshlag and a few forum guys have been able to get 335 Hoosiers to fit with minimal poke.
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Old 04-26-2017, 01:34 PM   #30
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I used to have this. I have 0 deg toe in front for brake stability (my current spec). The other thing that caused the chatter was too much tire pressure. Your hot pressure is high. I shoot for 36psi on the track hot.

Otherwise, the front struts need to be in good shape, bushing inserts in the lower control arm/radius rod bushings help hold the wheel under braking loads, and the tires need to be worn evenly and properly balanced. Also how are your wheel bearings? You can check for looseness by jacking up the wheel and putting your hands on the 12 and 6 o'clock, and check for free play (should be none). Lastly I torque my wheel lugs in the air to make sure the wheel is properly seated.
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Old 04-26-2017, 02:13 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wakespeak View Post
I used to have this. I have 0 deg toe in front for brake stability (my current spec). The other thing that caused the chatter was too much tire pressure. Your hot pressure is high. I shoot for 36psi on the track hot.

Otherwise, the front struts need to be in good shape, bushing inserts in the lower control arm/radius rod bushings help hold the wheel under braking loads, and the tires need to be worn evenly and properly balanced. Also how are your wheel bearings? You can check for looseness by jacking up the wheel and putting your hands on the 12 and 6 o'clock, and check for free play (should be none). Lastly I torque my wheel lugs in the air to make sure the wheel is properly seated.
Thanks for the advice. I run 1/4" toe out due to being primarily autocross, and maybe you missed it in an earlier post but my hot pressures are now 36/34.

I have the JPSS billet radius rod inserts, and Z28 suspension kit everywhere else. Wheel bearings have about 67k on them, but I didn't consider them.

I'll have it up today to re-align, I'll give it a once-over.
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Old 04-27-2017, 08:37 AM   #32
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Lonewolf - If I read your earlier post correctly, your inside source said that we can swap the brake module for the Z28 module and have a more aggressive ABS "tune" (assuming running Z28 tire/wheel combo)? I'm wondering if it's just the module or the entire setup:

https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-22966.../dp/B00S0IAJ3W

https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-22966...words=22966396
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Old 04-27-2017, 07:24 PM   #33
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Lonewolf - If I read your earlier post correctly, your inside source said that we can swap the brake module for the Z28 module and have a more aggressive ABS "tune" (assuming running Z28 tire/wheel combo)? I'm wondering if it's just the module or the entire setup:

https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-22966.../dp/B00S0IAJ3W

https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-22966...words=22966396
I don't want to spread false information but someone just PM'd me some information which would disagree with the inside source.

The inside source said when the ABS module is unplugged his electric power steering went away. This would suggest the EPS models differ in calibration from the non-EPS years and the car owned by the PM guy may have been hydraulic. There is VIN lock to consider aswell.

At this point, we're at a state of "SHOULD WORK but you'll get a dash light" if you swap within EPS years. Please do not get angry if this doesn't work, you have been warned lol.

I'd anticipate just switching the module and not the valve would do the trick.
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Last edited by Lonewolf583; 04-27-2017 at 07:31 PM. Reason: VIN
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Old 04-28-2017, 10:26 AM   #34
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I was able to get a '12 TCM OS in my '11 SS. Not terribly difficult, but not exactly straightforward either, so I was hoping getting a 1LE EBCM (taken off a 1LE) on the car would be fairly easy as well; not so. Dash lit up like a xmas tree with no ABS/Stability control.

Initially I thought it was because the VIN didn't match. That is, I have a high degree of confidence the VIN is part of the cal (like it is in the TCM). I've been meaning to get together with someone that might be able to edit the cal, but just never got around to it.

That said, Lonewolf583 brings up something I hadn't considered: EPS...

My 1st thought was that I could see how steering angle might come into play, but not why EPS would be any different than HPS. Turns out the EPS systems are quite sophisticated, and do rely on data from the ABS/ESC systems. Therefore, it's not likely an EBCM from an EPS car will work on an HPS car, at least without some manipulation of the firmware... At the very least, you'd very likely have to get your VIN written to the EBCM...

Also, I'm pretty sure if you were to purchase an EBCM new (like the Amazon links), it would ship blank, and a dealer would have to write the cal to it, and of course, that would be based on your VIN, so at best, you would have a Z/28 EBCM with the same cal you already have; nothing gained...
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Old 05-01-2017, 10:35 AM   #35
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Gentlemen,

I think you are going to find that getting a Z module to talk to the rest of the system in a non-Z Camaro is going to be rather complex is at all possible.

Lonewolf,

Can you detail out your brake setup for me please?
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Old 05-01-2017, 01:23 PM   #36
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Gentlemen,

I think you are going to find that getting a Z module to talk to the rest of the system in a non-Z Camaro is going to be rather complex is at all possible.

Lonewolf,

Can you detail out your brake setup for me please?
Generic blank vented rotors, stock SS Brembo Calipers, Granatelli Hoses, GLOC R6 Pads, Motul RBF600 fluid, stock tubing, master, and ABS module.

Whenever I pull the rotors between pad swaps I clean off the rotors with 80 grit. The rotors are probably about 15k. The pads were bedded properly a few days prior. The fluid was changed when I did the pad install.

There is no feeling of air in the system. During daily driving, pedal modulation is great, very liveable. After 1 or 2 corners at an event you can tell these R6 compound GLOC's are ON. During the event there was no indication of fluid boiling, no pedal to floor, feel was consistent once the pads were in their operating range.

On a less sticky surface (parking lot vs concrete) this past weekend the front end didn't chatter as hard or as harshly but I did hit definitely hit ICE mode a few times during some reactionary braking.
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Old 05-01-2017, 01:37 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf583 View Post
Generic blank vented rotors, stock SS Brembo Calipers, Granatelli Hoses, GLOC R6 Pads, Motul RBF600 fluid, stock tubing, master, and ABS module.

Whenever I pull the rotors between pad swaps I clean off the rotors with 80 grit. The rotors are probably about 15k. The pads were bedded properly a few days prior. The fluid was changed when I did the pad install.

There is no feeling of air in the system. During daily driving, pedal modulation is great, very liveable. After 1 or 2 corners at an event you can tell these R6 compound GLOC's are ON. During the event there was no indication of fluid boiling, no pedal to floor, feel was consistent once the pads were in their operating range.

On a less sticky surface (parking lot vs concrete) this past weekend the front end didn't chatter as hard or as harshly but I did hit definitely hit ICE mode a few times during some reactionary braking.
There is nothing in your setup that should require a new module. Some drivers see ICE mode more than others. The difference is in the application of pressure to the brake pedal. Stabbing will bring on ICE mode where squeezing to a higher pressure threshold will not.

Next time out, find a spot where you get ICE mode using your current breaking technique and then go back and squeeze to a higher pressure level to compensate for the split second delay in getting to terminal pressure. Let me know if that works for you.
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Old 05-01-2017, 02:28 PM   #38
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10-4

After the concrete chatter I was certainly more conscious of trying to drive around ABS ICE mode. It still happens during reactionary braking but I'll get better.

At what point would one be limited by decel outright, the word you used was "should"
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Old 05-01-2017, 02:33 PM   #39
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10-4

After the concrete chatter I was certainly more conscious of trying to drive around ABS ICE mode. It still happens during reactionary braking but I'll get better.

At what point would one be limited by decel outright, the word you used was "should"
When your slicks start to move around the wheel under braking, even though you put them on using hairspray and not tire mounting lube
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Old 04-27-2018, 07:18 AM   #40
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Dusting this guy off again.

I've noticed over the past ~year or so the rebound feel on the Z28 kit seems a bit...lacking.

Primarily low speed scenarios - I feed the car in smooth and the initial loadup/compression "seems fine"...but the thing bounces around a bit on the loaded corner. I'd be dialing my knob up on rebound if these were adjustable.

I'm going to move to MCS 2 ways next season but for now I have to make it work.

Thoughts?
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