[Godfatha]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I disagree.

Ford developed cars like the GT500 and BOSS 302 without the Camaro. GM bases its development off the competition. Other manufacturers build what they want.

Gotcha, but you're talking about cars that a very small segment of the population has. I should have been more clear, the competition between the GT and SS makes the cars better. Even with the V6 models, although if you're getting the V6 you're not as concerned about performance.

[AZCamaroFan]

mustang sales jumped when the Camaro was gone. they don't have a Corvette either. No compettion wouldn't be had for them at all.

on the other hand they are more complacent than chevrolet. remember what HP was for the 2005 mustang gt ? 300. Remember what it was 5 years later when the 2010 Camaro came out ? 300.

[PoorMansCamaro]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

mustang sales jumped when the Camaro was gone. they don't have a Corvette either. No compettion wouldn't be had for them at all.

on the other hand they are more complacent than chevrolet. remember what HP was for the 2005 mustang gt ? 300. Remember what it was 5 years later when the 2010 Camaro came out ? 300.

if i'm not mistaken, the 2010 mustang was released before the 2010 Camaro, and they didn't know the hp numbers for Camaro. for 2011, the mustang gt jumped up to over 400hp. I would bet my life, that if Camaro didn't come back, they'd still be at 315hp, from 2010.

[init4fun]

Originally Posted by DRKS1D3

The Challenger is increasing in sales because both Ford and GM have increased the amount of "ugly" in their respective pony car.

Completely agree. AT this point my only option for Camaro replacement is the Challanger. I can't fit in a Corvette so my options are limited as I wouldn't even consider the 2019 Camaro.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Godfatha

Gotcha, but you're talking about cars that a very small segment of the population has. I should have been more clear, the competition between the GT and SS makes the cars better. Even with the V6 models, although if you're getting the V6 you're not as concerned about performance.

It’s pretty clear that base car performance matters very little. The Mustang has historically outsold the Camaro, even with lower performance. Ford knows what is going to sell a car.

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

mustang sales jumped when the Camaro was gone. they don't have a Corvette either. No compettion wouldn't be had for them at all.

on the other hand they are more complacent than chevrolet. remember what HP was for the 2005 mustang gt ? 300. Remember what it was 5 years later when the 2010 Camaro came out ? 300.

The 5.0 Coyote came out in 2011. It takes way more than a year to develop a completely new engine.

[AZCamaroFan]

yes PMC in the spring of 2009 when the magazines were testing the new camaro against the mustang they had already released the 2010 with the new styling, but still no change to the motor.

they were 50 HP down the to the camaro in the 90s too and their buyers didn't care

[DRKS1D3]

Competition breeds success. When you're the only game in town and have no competitors, the status quo is good enough. Competitors push you to make a better product. Evolve or die.

[PoorMansCamaro]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

yes PMC in the spring of 2009 when the magazines were testing the new camaro against the mustang they had already released the 2010 with the new styling, but still no change to the motor.

they were 50 HP down the to the camaro in the 90s too and their buyers didn't care

Perhaps, but when the competition has a v6 variant that almost matches your v8, you need to make some drastic changes. lol

[AZCamaroFan]

yeah and the challenger 400hp version was 10k more. i remember people writing in to MT , 'why aren't you testing the RT, it's the same price as the SS?'
'er...because it's completely outgunned'

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I disagree.

Ford developed cars like the GT500 and BOSS 302 without the Camaro. GM bases its development off the competition. Other manufacturers build what they want.

I disagree, yeah ford made special editions without being prompted, but they have had a steady flow of improvments to the GT and base models to keep in line with Camaro.

Originally Posted by Godfatha

Gotcha, but you're talking about cars that a very small segment of the population has. I should have been more clear, the competition between the GT and SS makes the cars better. Even with the V6 models, although if you're getting the V6 you're not as concerned about performance.

Agreed

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

yes PMC in the spring of 2009 when the magazines were testing the new camaro against the mustang they had already released the 2010 with the new styling, but still no change to the motor.

they were 50 HP down the to the camaro in the 90s too and their buyers didn't care

That is because the new V-6 and Coyote engines weren't ready yet. I would have to bet they would have loved for them to go in the facelifted 2010 S197, but they simply weren't ready yet.

[94turbolsx]

It was a failed attempt a striking any design cues from the first gen in the front clip. The first thing that comes to mind with the 2019 front clip is Toyota for one, and the 2019 Silverado second. Its not tasteful, its not even really aggressive, its just awkward looking at best. Its 85% black grill, an out of place bowtie and in all that black grill, the all chrome headlights stick out like they dont belong.

When the transformers 6th gen was shown, my thoughts were "thank god that is just a movie car because what an ugly mess it is". I can't believe you guys greenlighted this mess.

Thankfully there is plenty of brand new 2017 and 18's left. I have a feeling they will sell fast.

[chozn4service]

Hopefully there are but a handful of these monstrosities on hand and still in GM’s possession that they can undo this mess and revert back. The whole project sucks and the looks are like my ex wife, tore up from the floor up!
That said, they can correct this or either let it run and suffer the consequences.
I’ll never get a newer one if something where to happen to my current Camaro and I’d opt to move to the Corvette which my wife would love for me to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RenegadeXR]

Originally Posted by chozn4service

Hopefully there are but a handful of these monstrosities on hand and still in GM’s possession that they can undo this mess and revert back.

I think it's a definite possibility that they could make really minor tweaks to the SS front design to put it in line with what people have all been kind of universally "photoshopping" the car to look like (ie: paint the blackout, move bowtie to the grill.)

The only real technical detail here is that the flowtie in the blackout is indeed an actual cutout to the radiator to help feed it air. That being said, I sincerely doubt that the CFM of airflow it provides is that large. It probably wouldn't lead to catastrophic failure if they removed it. I'm not saying it doesn't serve a functional purpose, but I think the flowtie is more-so a marketing gimmick.

I'll cite this as a case in point: When the 6th gen first launched, GM originally said, EXTREMELY firmly, that the SS had to have a 3 stanchion spoiler and would never be available with the blade spoiler that was then only optional for the LT. Forum members also noted that the stanchion spoilers left holes making the blade spoiler installation impractical. Well, within 6 months, GM reverted that decision and just made a minor production line change to put LT decklids on SS's that were sold with the blade option. And despite the fact that GM engineers initially claimed critical differences in downforce and aero properties, the blade spoiler was even treated as a performance part of sorts and embraced on all future 1LE trims.

So if the blade spoiler could make it to the SS despite engineers and GM execs saying it would never happen, I would bet similarly they can kill the center flowtie of the 2019 SS refresh. If the community very strongly wants something, and GM sees money left on the table and determines it won't be a major impediment to their production processes, they will listen and do it.

[GelflingEssence]

Originally Posted by sschons74

They should have directed the bean counters to the marketing dept. instead. .

Does GM even have a marketing department?