[cvp33]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Don't buy into the hype train. Dodge admitted they had to detune the Hellcat already to pass emissions. You don't think in a couple of years it will be easier to pass than in '14 when they did the certification? So yes they could retune it but if it didn't pass then, it won't pass now. Not to mention the black magic one would need to conjure to put that motor in the already small engine of the Giulia.

Don't panic, somehow the 2015 model passed the 2017 standard, I'm sure the Dodge boys will figure out how to reduce emissions by 10% (the new 2019 standard). And if anyone is worried about the corporate mileage standard it goes up 2mpg 2017 to 2019. US car makers (most) are in a good position here with a wide breadth of gas sipping hybrid models.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by avcbm

Dyno-Mighty 2015 Challenger SRT Hellcat, 2014 Camaro ZL1 Hit The Rollers

http://www.motortrend.com/news/dyno-mighty-challenger-srt-hellcat-camaro-zl1-hit-the-rollers/

That article doesn't say a whole lot. I remember the ZL1 being super sensitive to weather and putting down mediocre numbers/times in less than ideal conditions. Also, it is GENERALLY believed that driveline losses are a percentage (10-15%), but could be driveline losses are more of a fixed number.

Either way, the engines are SAE Certified, so you know what they make. The drivelines are not certified, so you don't know how efficient they are.

[cvp33]

For the record, car makers have been paying fines for decades for missing federally mandated CAFE standards. Here's a few years data.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/rul...es-07-2014.pdf

[clanky]

If you are wanting to just roast tires and have stupid horsepower and bragging rights about it.. Hellcat all the way.

If you want to turn while going fast ZL1.

Wait it can roast the tires and look good doing it too... hmm welp ZL1 is the winner.

I was waiting for a ZL1, but i'm not the most patient.. and the 0% apr pushed me over so I snagged up a 2SS.. Apples and oranges I know, but when comparing it to the challenger it just dominates it interior exterior performance, etc.. If they were both out and I haven't purchased yet it would always be the ZL1.. unless a ton of crap starts going wrong with it *knock on wood*.

[HCT]

Originally Posted by Heavymetal454

The more I continue to read these posts I'm starting to feel like the HC might be more the car I'm looking for. Brute power, color combinations that put some of GM offerings to shame, great retro styling.

Am I making a mistake by thinking that way?

I own a Charger Hellcat (the 4-door) not a Challenger, but I'll chime in...

The most important thing is not to make some group of strangers on the Internet happy, it's to get the car that will make YOU happy. So you need to assess what you most want in a car.

The Challenger has a few things going for it. Styling is subjective, but I think it's a great looking car. It's also roomy -- if you and your wife are thinking of having kids or if you regularly haul more than one passenger, the back seat is seriously comfortable for adults. The interior was redesigned for '15 and was well done, and the UConnect infotainment system is among the best in the industry. The A8 is a masterpiece of engineering. (I can't speak to the manual from personal experience.)

If you're just going to drive the car on the street and/or drag strip, the Hellcat is a terrific car.

If you want to do canyon carving or road course work, the Hellcat is a TERRIBLE choice. I mean, it turns and stops really well for a car that's as big and heavy as it is, but you're always aware of the car's mass. It's not happy making fast transitions.

The ZL1 will be the better all-'round performer by far. That matters more for some drivers than others -- where I am in Texas, it's mostly straight roads so the ZL1's extreme handling superiority wouldn't come into play very often.

In terms of resale value, the SRT products hold their value surprisingly well. They definitely rank near the bottom in terms of overall reliability but as with Jeep somehow that doesn't cause them to depreciate hard.

FWIW the overall Hellcat drivetrain seems to have been designed quite well. It doesn't have heat soak issues and you can beat on it without it breaking. The one mod people have tended to find necessary is that if you equip the car with drag radials you will want to consider a beefier driveshaft -- on a prepped drag strip surface it can twist the stock driveshaft with the extra traction from drag radials or slicks (but not with stock tires).

[HCT]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Exactly. The Giulia is a much smaller chassis and engine bay. There's little chance any of the current V8s will fit. And there are rumors floating too that the HEMI is gone after the current chassis is replaced. From everything I've seen Dodge has no new V8 in development. It will take DI at least to satisfy CAFE in the coming years. This means like any future Charger/Challengers will be powered by turbo 4s or turbo 6s. Maybe they will get the funds for a low production V8 for SRT/Hellcat models. If they don't announce something new in the V8 powertrain market soon, those rumors may turn into reality.

I strongly agree. FCA's problem is that it's cash-starved. They don't have the financial headroom to design a low volume V8 like Ford did with the GT350's Voodoo.

I think the only hope of a modern V8 would be if they design one that can be shared with trucks and the larger Jeeps. Otherwise I can't see them having enough volume to justify it.

[bluHawk141]

Originally Posted by HCT

I own a Charger Hellcat (the 4-door) not a Challenger, but I'll chime in...

The most important thing is not to make some group of strangers on the Internet happy, it's to get the car that will make YOU happy. So you need to assess what you most want in a car.

The Challenger has a few things going for it. Styling is subjective, but I think it's a great looking car. It's also roomy -- if you and your wife are thinking of having kids or if you regularly haul more than one passenger, the back seat is seriously comfortable for adults. The interior was redesigned for '15 and was well done, and the UConnect infotainment system is among the best in the industry. The A8 is a masterpiece of engineering. (I can't speak to the manual from personal experience.)

If you're just going to drive the car on the street and/or drag strip, the Hellcat is a terrific car.

If you want to do canyon carving or road course work, the Hellcat is a TERRIBLE choice. I mean, it turns and stops really well for a car that's as big and heavy as it is, but you're always aware of the car's mass. It's not happy making fast transitions.

The ZL1 will be the better all-'round performer by far. That matters more for some drivers than others -- where I am in Texas, it's mostly straight roads so the ZL1's extreme handling superiority wouldn't come into play very often.

In terms of resale value, the SRT products hold their value surprisingly well. They definitely rank near the bottom in terms of overall reliability but as with Jeep somehow that doesn't cause them to depreciate hard.

FWIW the overall Hellcat drivetrain seems to have been designed quite well. It doesn't have heat soak issues and you can beat on it without it breaking. The one mod people have tended to find necessary is that if you equip the car with drag radials you will want to consider a beefier driveshaft -- on a prepped drag strip surface it can twist the stock driveshaft with the extra traction from drag radials or slicks (but not with stock tires).

+1 I think that was a great unbiased review, despite owning the vehicle.

[Heavymetal454]

[QUOTE=HCT;9203446]I own a Charger Hellcat (the 4-door) not a Challenger, but I'll chime in...

The most important thing is not to make some group of strangers on the Internet happy, it's to get the car that will make YOU happy. So you need to assess what you most want in a car.



Thanks. As stated it may be more of what I'm looking for now. Instant gratification instead of a big question mark. The fact is we are but a few months away from the ZL1 and it does carry with it the new buzz factor since no one has seen it. That's worth something too. Had I jumped on the HC a few years ago I might have been equally satisfied since part of my objective was having something different. There are quite a few now so the novelty has worn off for some. The only color choice for me now is the Go Mango so with the demise of Sublime etc it's not really as appealing as it once was. I guess I'm just frustrated right now. In a few months that will fade once ordering starts. Until then I need to find something else to occupy my time.

[Jeffro19]

[QUOTE=Heavymetal454;9203664]

Originally Posted by HCT

I own a Charger Hellcat (the 4-door) not a Challenger, but I'll chime in...

The most important thing is not to make some group of strangers on the Internet happy, it's to get the car that will make YOU happy. So you need to assess what you most want in a car.



Thanks. As stated it may be more of what I'm looking for now. Instant gratification instead of a big question mark. The fact is we are but a few months away from the ZL1 and it does carry with it the new buzz factor since no one has seen it. That's worth something too. Had I jumped on the HC a few years ago I might have been equally satisfied since part of my objective was having something different. There are quite a few now so the novelty has worn off for some. The only color choice for me now is the Go Mango so with the demise of Sublime etc it's not really as appealing as it once was. I guess I'm just frustrated right now. In a few months that will fade once ordering starts. Until then I need to find something else to occupy my time.

I hope you stick with the ZL1. Just a few more months. The ZL1 is going to do so much more than the hellcat. Don't get me wrong the hellcat is pretty sweet and fast. But I think waiting for the ZL1 you won't be disappointed.

[detltu]

Originally Posted by HCT

I own a Charger Hellcat (the 4-door) not a Challenger, but I'll chime in...

The most important thing is not to make some group of strangers on the Internet happy, it's to get the car that will make YOU happy. So you need to assess what you most want in a car.

The Challenger has a few things going for it. Styling is subjective, but I think it's a great looking car. It's also roomy -- if you and your wife are thinking of having kids or if you regularly haul more than one passenger, the back seat is seriously comfortable for adults. The interior was redesigned for '15 and was well done, and the UConnect infotainment system is among the best in the industry. The A8 is a masterpiece of engineering. (I can't speak to the manual from personal experience.)

If you're just going to drive the car on the street and/or drag strip, the Hellcat is a terrific car.

If you want to do canyon carving or road course work, the Hellcat is a TERRIBLE choice. I mean, it turns and stops really well for a car that's as big and heavy as it is, but you're always aware of the car's mass. It's not happy making fast transitions.

The ZL1 will be the better all-'round performer by far. That matters more for some drivers than others -- where I am in Texas, it's mostly straight roads so the ZL1's extreme handling superiority wouldn't come into play very often.

In terms of resale value, the SRT products hold their value surprisingly well. They definitely rank near the bottom in terms of overall reliability but as with Jeep somehow that doesn't cause them to depreciate hard.

FWIW the overall Hellcat drivetrain seems to have been designed quite well. It doesn't have heat soak issues and you can beat on it without it breaking. The one mod people have tended to find necessary is that if you equip the car with drag radials you will want to consider a beefier driveshaft -- on a prepped drag strip surface it can twist the stock driveshaft with the extra traction from drag radials or slicks (but not with stock tires).

Good perspective! My buddies hellcat had the clutch give up on him but other than that has been reliable. I wouldn't worry about that aspect. I think the new ZL1 will be worth the wait, but the Challenger definately has some things going for it. The interior roominess is night and day compared to the 6th gen. Visibility is also much better in the Challenger.

I think the new ZL1 won't quite topple the HC as straight line king, but it will be close enough that it won't matter seat of the pants (you can tell the difference seat of the pants between the HC and my ZL1). I would love to see someone take the HC to the road course. I haven't come across one yet, but I bet they do better than they get credit for.

[DenverTaco07]

I wonder; due to hellcat's size it gave them the ability to obviously put a larger SC on it, and because of that, less heat soak issues. LT4 was designed to cram into the relatively cramped and short height of the Z06, so...give and take I suppose.

ZL1 i don't think will have the same issues (more coolers, more area for airflow), and we have already seen that the SC housing on the ZL1's LT4 is taller, some may speculate this is to help with cooling.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

I wonder; due to hellcat's size it gave them the ability to obviously put a larger SC on it, and because of that, less heat soak issues. LT4 was designed to cram into the relatively cramped and short height of the Z06, so...give and take I suppose.

ZL1 i don't think will have the same issues (more coolers, more area for airflow), and we have already seen that the SC housing on the ZL1's LT4 is taller, some may speculate this is to help with cooling.

That's a reasonable assumption. The large engine bay and flat grille on the LX cars are perfect for dissipating heat too, especially compared to the slick aero and short height of the C7 front end.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

In the end, yeah, but MPH's are fun too to gauge potential.

MPH, more so than E.T., actually shows the power being produced. E.T. shows how well it gets to the ground, and driver ability, obviously. I run an event called ChallengerFest each year, just like CamaroFest. Hellcats all trap 124-127MPH over and over and over again. Never seem to get heat soaked. However E.T.s can be all over the place LOL

Originally Posted by 1295/SS

Because of the Vette. Only reason.

(Nods) Yep.

Originally Posted by HCT

I own a Charger Hellcat (the 4-door) not a Challenger, but I'll chime in...

The most important thing is not to make some group of strangers on the Internet happy, it's to get the car that will make YOU happy. So you need to assess what you most want in a car.

The Challenger has a few things going for it. Styling is subjective, but I think it's a great looking car. It's also roomy -- if you and your wife are thinking of having kids or if you regularly haul more than one passenger, the back seat is seriously comfortable for adults. The interior was redesigned for '15 and was well done, and the UConnect infotainment system is among the best in the industry. The A8 is a masterpiece of engineering. (I can't speak to the manual from personal experience.)

If you're just going to drive the car on the street and/or drag strip, the Hellcat is a terrific car.

If you want to do canyon carving or road course work, the Hellcat is a TERRIBLE choice. I mean, it turns and stops really well for a car that's as big and heavy as it is, but you're always aware of the car's mass. It's not happy making fast transitions.

The ZL1 will be the better all-'round performer by far. That matters more for some drivers than others -- where I am in Texas, it's mostly straight roads so the ZL1's extreme handling superiority wouldn't come into play very often.

In terms of resale value, the SRT products hold their value surprisingly well. They definitely rank near the bottom in terms of overall reliability but as with Jeep somehow that doesn't cause them to depreciate hard.

FWIW the overall Hellcat drivetrain seems to have been designed quite well. It doesn't have heat soak issues and you can beat on it without it breaking. The one mod people have tended to find necessary is that if you equip the car with drag radials you will want to consider a beefier driveshaft -- on a prepped drag strip surface it can twist the stock driveshaft with the extra traction from drag radials or slicks (but not with stock tires).

Very good post on the difference. I had a lady drive her new HC Charger from PA straight to Bowling Green, KY for ChallengerFest. She ran 10s over and over and over all day long hot lapping the car. They don't seem to heat soak at all. You're spot on with the drive shaft upgrade as well for DRs.

I did a quick search as I figured SOMEONE had engine dyno'd a HC motor. Sure enough. 754HP just like I suggested. Now this obviously isn't SAE certified, but surprisingly it was done by the folks that built the engine in my Challenger, Arrington Performance. They used to do a lot of stuff with NASCAR teams, engines, etc and have one of the, if not THE, nicest facilities I've ever seen.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Has the final drive ratio for the ZL1 been released yet? I haven't been able to find it. Curious if it'll have the Z06's 2.41, or the CTSV's 2.85, or something in between.