[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Very abnormal and a huge deal for both specs.
Ps Mine havent moved in 3 seasons.
Pss find another shop asap!!!

Good to know, thanks!

Would you say that change contributed to the insides wearing as fast as they did or not? I'm not sure what impact there is when the toe goes from positive to negative like that.

Oh and I almost forgot!
The tire shop I went to said the front camber bolts were missing! They said perhaps the last dealership took them out so that they could get a higher negative camber, I asked them if this was a big deal and they said, no it just makes it harder to dial in the camber.
I know nothing about this but alarm bells went off as soon as they said the bolts were missing...

[Scargoes]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Just changed my front tires today and got it realigned back to street settings after it had been aligned to track specifications in May.

Camber had moved from of -2.0 to -2.5 on the front passenger side but stayed about the same on the front driver side going from -2.0 to -1.7.

Toe had gone from +.02 on both front tires to -.13 and -.08 before the re-alignment back to street settings. Now that I think about it, the dealership never set the toe right, seeing as how track alignment recommends .1 to .15, not sure if that's a big deal or not.

Also not sure if that kind of camber and toe change is normal after about 15 twenty minute track sessions and 5000 miles.

That much Camber change shouldn't have happened. And that is what caused most of your Toe change. And that Toe change is what really killed your tires.

[Scargoes]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Oh and I almost forgot!
The tire shop I went to said the front camber bolts were missing! They said perhaps the last dealership took them out so that they could get a higher negative camber, I asked them if this was a big deal and they said, no it just makes it harder to dial in the camber.
I know nothing about this but alarm bells went off as soon as they said the bolts were missing...

If they are talking about the threaded holes at the top of the knuckle, there are no bolts in there from the factory. Those holes are provided to assist in getting the alignment set, but you have to provide your own bolts.

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Scargoes

If they are talking about the threaded holes at the top of the knuckle, there are no bolts in there from the factory. Those holes are provided to assist in getting the alignment set, but you have to provide your own bolts.

Thanks, that must have been what they are talking about.
If any other bolts were missing I'd assume it would have been impossible to drive the car let alone do the alignment..

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Scargoes

That much Camber change shouldn't have happened. And that is what caused most of your Toe change. And that Toe change is what really killed your tires.

Gotchya, would you also say that would be due to improper alignment job?
And as TrackClub suggested, time to find a new place to get alignments?

[Laststandard]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

This tire still has tons of life left, except for the cords of course. Which is quite different from overall wear leading to eventual cording (see pic). Perhaps your toe walked?

I'm sure it did. Probably within the first few track days and then too much street driving was the nail in the coffin. Haven't had a chance to get it in to my alignment guy.. but now the season is almost over so it may be going into hibernation.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Did you noticed much different in the feel when you took the toe out?

Not sure...I was slower, but i don't think it was the toe. Hotter, used front tires from another member here, thin brake pads, didn't do a quick bleed of SRF before the TNiA, and none of that had me feeling comfortable to drive on my A game, so I was smart and kept it safe.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

After 10 sessions huh? Most guys here seemed to be getting up to 25 sessions on these SC3 tires, so I figured I wouldn't have to check until closer to 20 sessions.

Keep in mind that "up to 25 sessions" is an upper limit done by drivers other than you on tracks other than yours. That's three separate variables not counting the apparent drift in your car's alignment settings. As a newbie, you have nothing to base where in the range of number of sessions your tire life is going to fall, so you owe it to yourself to be very conservative until you have a better basis for judging where your rate of tire wear is going to typically fall.

Given that your alignment did drift a bit, I'm going to revise that 10 session suggestion downward. Down to no more than every other session - from the get-go - with your next set of tires. You don't know yet how well the next track alignment is going to hold up, and you can't bring a street driving attitude toward component checking to the track. Stay on top of it; it can't be that hard to turn the wheels full lock in paddock (and get out a flashlight or your phone if you need more light).



FWIW, on suggestion by at least one driver with quite a bit more track experience than I, I tried running a different line through just one corner at one of my home track courses. And found that after only two sessions that I was getting much more severe and uneven tire wear than I was getting when on my normal line . . . and this was happening with no lap time benefit and tires that got greasy more rapidly. I have an idea why, and while that's irrelevant here it does point to how just one or two changes in your driving can alter the tire wear that you get for the worse. It's not the kind of thing you're guaranteed to see coming.



Norm

[Scargoes]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Gotchya, would you also say that would be due to improper alignment job?
And as TrackClub suggested, time to find a new place to get alignments?

I wouldn't say improper alignment. There are many factors to the possibility of the alignment drifting out. Were all the suspension bolts torqued properly? Did you hit any pot holes? Did you hit curbs hard on track? It would be better to go to a place that is more in tune with track/race cars for an alignment as they have a better understanding of what you are trying to achieve and the forces that are input to the vehicle. You can always check the torque of the fasteners after an alignment if you feel so inclined.

I would also suggest buying a paint pen of your color choice(suggesting something bright) to mark the heads of the fasteners, both sides of the knuckle/strut bolts, for quick inspection before/after tracks days to see if anything has moved. Anytime the fastener has been loosened and re torqued, mark the fastener again. A quick sprits of brake clean will remove the old mark and clean the area and fastener for the new mark.

[chetly]

Has anyone tried the F1 Supercar 3 in 305/30-19 and 325/30-19? I see them both listed on goodyears website but the 305 isn't listed on tire rack.

[BlueinTN]

Somethings bugged with Tire rack I looked up the same sizes over the weekend and they didnt even list the 325's and 3 brands with the 305's.


Its totally different today.

[JRL1LE]

Originally Posted by BlueinTN

Somethings bugged with Tire rack I looked up the same sizes over the weekend and they didnt even list the 325's and 3 brands with the 305's.


Its totally different today.

Call and ask for Brad at Tirerack, he'll take care of you.

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Keep in mind that "up to 25 sessions" is an upper limit done by drivers other than you on tracks other than yours. That's three separate variables not counting the apparent drift in your car's alignment settings. As a newbie, you have nothing to base where in the range of number of sessions your tire life is going to fall, so you owe it to yourself to be very conservative until you have a better basis for judging where your rate of tire wear is going to typically fall.

Given that your alignment did drift a bit, I'm going to revise that 10 session suggestion downward. Down to no more than every other session - from the get-go - with your next set of tires. You don't know yet how well the next track alignment is going to hold up, and you can't bring a street driving attitude toward component checking to the track. Stay on top of it; it can't be that hard to turn the wheels full lock in paddock (and get out a flashlight or your phone if you need more light).



FWIW, on suggestion by at least one driver with quite a bit more track experience than I, I tried running a different line through just one corner at one of my home track courses. And found that after only two sessions that I was getting much more severe and uneven tire wear than I was getting when on my normal line . . . and this was happening with no lap time benefit and tires that got greasy more rapidly. I have an idea why, and while that's irrelevant here it does point to how just one or two changes in your driving can alter the tire wear that you get for the worse. It's not the kind of thing you're guaranteed to see coming.



Norm

Good points, thanks for the advice Norm

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Scargoes

I wouldn't say improper alignment. There are many factors to the possibility of the alignment drifting out. Were all the suspension bolts torqued properly? Did you hit any pot holes? Did you hit curbs hard on track? It would be better to go to a place that is more in tune with track/race cars for an alignment as they have a better understanding of what you are trying to achieve and the forces that are input to the vehicle. You can always check the torque of the fasteners after an alignment if you feel so inclined.

I would also suggest buying a paint pen of your color choice(suggesting something bright) to mark the heads of the fasteners, both sides of the knuckle/strut bolts, for quick inspection before/after tracks days to see if anything has moved. Anytime the fastener has been loosened and re torqued, mark the fastener again. A quick sprits of brake clean will remove the old mark and clean the area and fastener for the new mark.

I like that advice to, I think I'll skip the dealership next time and see if my race oriented mechanic can do the alignment.