[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by JitteryJoe

The biggest issue with transmissions on EV's is the parasitic loss negatively impacting range. I think you run into a situation where "more gear" is just going to make you traction limited so you're sacrificing range with no big improvement in acceleration unless you want to daily Mikey Thompson's (again killing more range).

It's not much different from the way it is with ICEs. Big-displacement ICEs really don't have as much need for as many gearbox speeds as small-displacement ICEs do.

I can picture it being similar with EVs once the mfrs stop simply throwing more power at their EVs. Instead of having just a single forward speed, 2, 3, or possibly 4.


Norm

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

tesla has no gears. It seems to accelerate to high speed just fine and cruise for long distances just fine in the same car.

transmissions are a necessary evil created around the limitations of engines/motors. They're not necessarily needed for electric motors in most uses. Generally when the motor being used is either undersized or the wrong KV rating for the application for some reason. Seems that for cars, that isn't generally the case.

bolting on a bunch of weight and adding moving parts and needing to oil and cool those parts just to allow your car to go from 160 to 200+ in a non-race car just isn't justifiable for most car buyers....so they dont do it.

EVs generally do worse in terms of eMPG on highways. At higher speeds, they still tend to fall out of the efficiency band.

Electricity is generally cheap for now but that can change in the future. That's when efficiency can start to play a role.

And as said, you don't even need that many gears. Just two is probably fine. You still need to maintain the differential of an EV. That still has oil in it. Just make the transmission a transaxle like most FWD cars and it wouldn't make a difference maintenance-wise.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

And as said, you don't even need that many gears. Just two is probably fine. You still need to maintain the differential of an EV. That still has oil in it. Just make the transmission a transaxle like most FWD cars and it wouldn't make a difference maintenance-wise.

Two might work for the average grocery-getter/commuter-car/transportation appliance. Literally millions of Powerglides, Powerflites, and Fordomatics (which were 3-speed but would normally launch in 2nd unless you floored the accelerator pedal) were installed in various cars.

But four would make for a more involving drive experience. Much like how the 4-speed MTs that first showed up in the USA in imported sports roadsters compared to the "three-on-the-tree" MTs in then-current US Domestic car usage.


Norm

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Camaros will never get old and they will never die.☝😩

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by MackSteelPrivateEye

Camaros will never get old and they will never die.☝😩

I agree in spirit it will never get old but it already died once :(

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I agree in spirit it will never get old but it already died once :(

There are some hardcore purists who never believed the 3rd-4th gens were true Camaros because they were hatchbacks. And some I’ve talked to say they believe the 5th-6th gens are more authentic Camaros than anything from 1982-2002.

[Road_Warrior85]

So is chevy just hedging their bets that in the future, 18-48 year olds will not value sporty / performance cars enough to make any Camaro replacement worth it?

Are they betting that that demographic will not be able to afford to have more than one car and will be more inclined to buy something else until they are older and well established (and can get a Corvette)?
(I feel like that is the reality whether it is what Chevy predicts)

I don't want to reignite the speculation that Challengers sell so well because they actually get advertised...... but..... the challenger and the charger (certainly the hellcats) really aren't having that much trouble. This is even despite the Challenger essentially being a 14 year old body style.


So even though Chevy missed when they made a car that could outperform everything else, at the expense of real world uses and drivability, there is still desire for a sports coupe type car. With Lexus and Mercedes even pushing harder into the segment in recent years.

Other than quitting is easier when you've already done it once, and other than making money is more important than making people happy, whats the big incentive to abandon a segment that everyone else is doing comparably well at?




(and since i don't work in the industry, or extensively study it, I apologize for any well meaning ignorance in my possible lack of knowledge)

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior85

So is chevy just hedging their bets that in the future, 18-48 year olds will not value sporty / performance cars enough to make any Camaro replacement worth it?

Are they betting that that demographic will not be able to afford to have more than one car and will be more inclined to buy something else until they are older and well established (and can get a Corvette)?
(I feel like that is the reality whether it is what Chevy predicts)

I don't want to reignite the speculation that Challengers sell so well because they actually get advertised...... but..... the challenger and the charger (certainly the hellcats) really aren't having that much trouble. This is even despite the Challenger essentially being a 14 year old body style.


So even though Chevy missed when they made a car that could outperform everything else, at the expense of real world uses and drivability, there is still desire for a sports coupe type car. With Lexus and Mercedes even pushing harder into the segment in recent years.

Other than quitting is easier when you've already done it once, and other than making money is more important than making people happy, whats the big incentive to abandon a segment that everyone else is doing comparably well at?




(and since i don't work in the industry, or extensively study it, I apologize for any well meaning ignorance in my possible lack of knowledge)

Pundits say sports cars us enthusiasts value are no longer interesting to kids who grew up staring at their iPhone all day. But I think a lot of it has to do with the fact they’re not promoting them. When I was a kid Chevy and Pontiac had some of the coolest advertisements that made you want to get out of your chair and run to the dealer if you saw it at 1:00 in the morning. The Heartbeat of America. Like A Rock (for the Silverados but still, same deal). We Build Excitement. GM now has “Real People”. The most boring, bland, uninspiring advertising on the planet. Makes you want to go to sleep, not buy a car. Oh, the car has Bluetooth? Really? So does every friggin other car on the planet today. Good gawd GM SMDH

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior85

So is chevy just hedging their bets that in the future, 18-48 year olds will not value sporty / performance cars enough to make any Camaro replacement worth it?

Are they betting that that demographic will not be able to afford to have more than one car and will be more inclined to buy something else until they are older and well established (and can get a Corvette)?
(I feel like that is the reality whether it is what Chevy predicts)

I don't want to reignite the speculation that Challengers sell so well because they actually get advertised...... but..... the challenger and the charger (certainly the hellcats) really aren't having that much trouble. This is even despite the Challenger essentially being a 14 year old body style.


So even though Chevy missed when they made a car that could outperform everything else, at the expense of real world uses and drivability, there is still desire for a sports coupe type car. With Lexus and Mercedes even pushing harder into the segment in recent years.

Other than quitting is easier when you've already done it once, and other than making money is more important than making people happy, whats the big incentive to abandon a segment that everyone else is doing comparably well at?




(and since i don't work in the industry, or extensively study it, I apologize for any well meaning ignorance in my possible lack of knowledge)

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Pundits say sports cars us enthusiasts value are no longer interesting to kids who grew up staring at their iPhone all day. But I think a lot of it has to do with the fact they’re not promoting them. When I was a kid Chevy and Pontiac had some of the coolest advertisements that made you want to get out of your chair and run to the dealer if you saw it at 1:00 in the morning. The Heartbeat of America. Like A Rock (for the Silverados but still, same deal). We Build Excitement. GM now has “Real People”. The most boring, bland, uninspiring advertising on the planet. Makes you want to go to sleep, not buy a car. Oh, the car has Bluetooth? Really? So does every friggin other car on the planet today. Good gawd GM SMDH

Coupes in general are a dying segment. And there aren’t enough people now that value what the Camaro to justify further investment. IF they were to do so they would need to make a car that appeals to a broader customer base (Mustang, which also does not advertise and Challenger clearly have broader appeal) to get the sales up. The Camaro was designed for a very focused customer and unfortunately advertising will barely move the needle and GM knows this.

The hope, I think, will be to do something wildly different in concept and propulsion.

We shall see.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Coupes in general are a dying segment. And there aren’t enough people now that value what the Camaro to justify further investment. IF they were to do so they would need to make a car that appeals to a broader customer base (Mustang, which also does not advertise and Challenger clearly have broader appeal) to get the sales up. The Camaro was designed for a very focused customer and unfortunately advertising will barely move the needle and GM knows this.

The hope, I think, will be to do something wildly different in concept and propulsion.

We shall see.

It's good for the business, I understand, but look at BMW. The brand as a whole is diluting because they are too focused on trying to please the mass that they are losing their identity. You can't take the whole "Ultimate Driving Machine" slogan seriously anymore.

I think it may just come down to the fact that it's still a Chevy and they can't price it like, say, a Porsche, or even a Cadillac. Porsche gets away with being enthusiast-focused because they are expensive enough to sustain that.

It's an eternal struggle.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

It's good for the business, I understand, but look at BMW. The brand as a whole is diluting because they are too focused on trying to please the mass that they are losing their identity. You can't take the whole "Ultimate Driving Machine" slogan seriously anymore.

I think it may just come down to the fact that it's still a Chevy and they can't price it like, say, a Porsche, or even a Cadillac. Porsche gets away with being enthusiast-focused because they are expensive enough to sustain that.

It's an eternal struggle.

I think you are touching on one of biggest pet peeves with the General.

The interior for a $29,000 Camaro isn’t bad. But that same interior is also in a $75,000 Camaro.

Interior in the Silverado isn’t bad if you spend $30,000. But load up your pickup to $60,000 plus and shouldn’t you get a luxury car level interior?

GM has sucked at this since I started there in the 80s.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

It's good for the business, I understand, but look at BMW. The brand as a whole is diluting because they are too focused on trying to please the mass that they are losing their identity. You can't take the whole "Ultimate Driving Machine" slogan seriously anymore.

I think it may just come down to the fact that it's still a Chevy and they can't price it like, say, a Porsche, or even a Cadillac. Porsche gets away with being enthusiast-focused because they are expensive enough to sustain that.

It's an eternal struggle.

Doug DeMuro, who is younger than most of us and while some may laugh at his style he has almost 4 million subscribers, pointed out that BMW is in bad shape right now and they don’t know what to do. They’ve alienated their purist base going after mainstream profits, but their cars are now too mainstream to be what everyone used to desire.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I hunk you are touching on one of biggest pet peeves with the General.

The interior for a $29,000 Camaro isn’t bad. But that same interior is also in a $75,000 Camaro.

Interior in the Silverado isn’t bad if you spend $30,000. But load up your pickup to $60,000 plus and shouldn’t you get a luxury car level interior?

GM has sucked at this since I started there in the 80s.

As much as we all love the ZL1, there should never be any Camaro with a sticker price of $75k. The original 1969 ZL1 stickered for $7200, which is about $52,000 today. Dial back some of that performance to fit a ZL1 into a $52k sticker if you have to.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I hunk you are touching on one of biggest pet peeves with the General.

The interior for a $29,000 Camaro isn’t bad. But that same interior is also in a $75,000 Camaro.

Interior in the Silverado isn’t bad if you spend $30,000. But load up your pickup to $60,000 plus and shouldn’t you get a luxury car level interior?

GM has sucked at this since I started there in the 80s.

Yeah but cars with the same price as a Camaro SS with good interior will get smoked by a Camaro SS in terms of performance.

It's not just the General, Mustang and Charger interiors are both not that great. Heck, Nissan is also known for crappy interiors. Go see the 370Z and GT-R for yourself.

The Mazda6 I am borrowing now has good interior, but it almost costs the same as a Mustang GT PP1 and the performance is not even comparable.

Affordable, good performance, good interior, pick two.

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Doug DeMuro, who is younger than most of us and while some may laugh at his style he has almost 4 million subscribers, pointed out that BMW is in bad shape right now and they don’t know what to do. They’ve alienated their purist base going after mainstream profits, but their cars are now too mainstream to be what everyone used to desire.

It's especially a problem as Tesla has the same audience as BMW's main audience now.

Reminds me of Sony VAIO laptops. They used to be doing so well until Macbook showed up and ate their lunch. All of it.

And BMW isn't the only one. Ask any Mazda guy and they will also lament the same thing, more or less.