[6sigma]

Camaro incentives have been bad for a while, pre COVID. I'm not sure if they will ever get back to the 20%+ discounts. GM just doesn't seem interested in having that much supply on the market where they would need to put a pile of cash on the hood. The best option for a deal might be a V6 or oddly optioned car that just isn't moving.

[ember1205]

Originally Posted by 6sigma

Camaro incentives have been bad for a while, pre COVID. I'm not sure if they will ever get back to the 20%+ discounts. GM just doesn't seem interested in having that much supply on the market where they would need to put a pile of cash on the hood. The best option for a deal might be a V6 or oddly optioned car that just isn't moving.

Makes me curious as to whether GM is really only selling 'just enough' of them to get back their costs of development without really turning a profit? They aren't really marketing them (NO cars, really), there is not much inventory even in normal times (some dealers have them, lots don't), and they aren't pushing the incentives.

As far as "oddly optioned"... I don't think that's going to help much either. I took a run at two of those from a local dealership recently and they really wouldn't move too far on the price (about $2k off of the $50k MSRP). The one I bought was better discounted, but not by a ton and it has a build date that's from 10 months ago (it's been sitting on the dealer lot all that time without moving to other lots through a trade, even). While the one I bought wasn't really configured in an odd way per se, it was unattractive enough to sit there for a really long time before being sold.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

The entire dealership model of selling cars is antiquated and most consumers absolutely abhor it. It's time to sell cars differently.

Amen to that brother. Burn all the dealerships down. It's 2020. You seriously should be able to order a car from the factory online and either pick it up at the factory or have it delivered to you. I have no problem paying GM for the time, money, and technology they require to pay people and produce parts/supplies to build my Camaro. Engineers, designers, and factory assemblers are talented, intelligent, skilled, educated people. They deserve the money we pay them for our cars. They all actually PRODUCE something..... hence they are productive!!

The sketchy salesmen, sales managers, finance managers, and owers of car dealerships? They deserve hot coffee spilled on their lap and that's about it. They're simply middlemen. No need to be educated or skilled beyond high school for what they do. They couldn't tell a ball joint from a pot joint. And yet they make a killing. It's a bigger racket than the mafia.

[samurai]

I updated the initial post to add the sales numbers of Challenger and Mustang in Q2 2020 and YTD


Q2 2020:
Camaro: 6,675 down from 12,433 (-46.3%)
Challenger: 9,880 down from 15,237 (-35%)
Mustang: 15,717 down from 21,625 (-27.3%)

YTD:
Camaro: 13,860 down from 24,516 (-43.5%)
Challenger: 22,018 down from 28,668 (-23%)
Mustang: 33,786 down from 38,542 (-12.3%)

[samurai]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeROC

Ouch

Exactly. Makes you wonder whatever the current plans for Camaro7 are, how much will be left of it after Covid

[6sigma]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Amen to that brother. Burn all the dealerships down. It's 2020. You seriously should be able to order a car from the factory online and either pick it up at the factory or have it delivered to you. I have no problem paying GM for the time, money, and technology they require to pay people and produce parts/supplies to build my Camaro. Engineers, designers, and factory assemblers are talented, intelligent, skilled, educated people. They deserve the money we pay them for our cars. They all actually PRODUCE something..... hence they are productive!!

That's similar to how Porsche does it. My Porsche dealer has about 50% of their cars custom ordered. They stock more Macans since they are cheaper and more commoditized, but usually just one or two of the sports cars. They are happy to let you test drive one and then custom order YOUR car. Of course in the weird Porsche world you have to be awarded to ability to hand over a huge wad of cash to buy a car they are selling if you want one of the more in-demand models. That part of the business model should go away...

[6sigma]

Originally Posted by samurai

I updated the initial post to add the sales numbers of Challenger and Mustang in Q2 2020 and YTD


Q2 2020:
Camaro: 6,675 down from 12,433 (-46.3%)
Challenger: 9,880 down from 15,237 (-35%)
Mustang: 15,717 down from 21,625 (-27.3%)

YTD:
Camaro: 13,860 down from 24,516 (-43.5%)
Challenger: 22,018 down from 28,668 (-23%)
Mustang: 33,786 down from 38,542 (-12.3%)

I wonder what average transaction price and average margin is for the 3 models. Prob can't access that info easily. Mustang is almost 2.5x YTD units vs Camaro. That's crazy

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Amen to that brother. Burn all the dealerships down. It's 2020. You seriously should be able to order a car from the factory online and either pick it up at the factory or have it delivered to you. I have no problem paying GM for the time, money, and technology they require to pay people and produce parts/supplies to build my Camaro. Engineers, designers, and factory assemblers are talented, intelligent, skilled, educated people. They deserve the money we pay them for our cars. They all actually PRODUCE something..... hence they are productive!!



The sketchy salesmen, sales managers, finance managers, and owers of car dealerships? They deserve hot coffee spilled on their lap and that's about it. They're simply middlemen. No need to be educated or skilled beyond high school for what they do. They couldn't tell a ball joint from a pot joint. And yet they make a killing. It's a bigger racket than the mafia.

Sounds like Tesla is more for you.

I dunno, if no dealership means lower MSRP then I am for it, but otherwise the ability to leverage and get a good deal for leftover inventory is kinda nice.

Also I generally consider myself impatient and having current inventory is gonna be better for me than having to wait for a car to be made.

Originally Posted by 6sigma

That's similar to how Porsche does it. My Porsche dealer has about 50% of their cars custom ordered. They stock more Macans since they are cheaper and more commoditized, but usually just one or two of the sports cars. They are happy to let you test drive one and then custom order YOUR car. Of course in the weird Porsche world you have to be awarded to ability to hand over a huge wad of cash to buy a car they are selling if you want one of the more in-demand models. That part of the business model should go away...

Porsche does have a huge price premium, but that means that they actually listen to their enthusiasts and customers. They made a manual GT3 because fans cried out for one. Good luck getting GM/Ford/Toyota to do that for the C8/GT500/Zupr4.

Sent from toaster or something

[Efi69Cam]

Camaro outsells it’s Cadillac platform mates. That’s probably not good for the future of gm rwd cars in general.

[Bhobbs]

The Camaro is as good as dead. GM isn’t doing anything to keep it relevant.

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The Camaro is as good as dead. GM isn’t doing anything to keep it relevant.

You think? Are we all going to own boat anchors that we will have to give away at some point if we no longer want ours? I guess time will tell. I think all GM cares about is SUV's and PickUps. It's all anyone wants anymore.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by jamala00

You think? Are we all going to own boat anchors that we will have to give away at some point if we no longer want ours? I guess time will tell. I think all GM cares about is SUV's and PickUps. It's all anyone wants anymore.

I mean, he does have a point. The marketing needs work.

That said, you are right that it's not just a Camaro problem. Cars in general are suffering compared to SUVs and trucks.

Sent from toaster or something

[jamala00]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

I mean, he does have a point. The marketing needs work.

That said, you are right that it's not just a Camaro problem. Cars in general are suffering compared to SUVs and trucks.

Sent from toaster or something

Ya, he has a point for sure... I think he is 100% spot on. I think the only sport car GM is going to keep around long term is the Corvette. Just my $.02 My wife has a 2015 Impala (Awesome Full Size Sedan.) Gone.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Sounds like Tesla is more for you.

The correct answer is sounds like Tesla’s sales model is more for everyone!

Tesla was having a hard time establishing their stores due to pushback from the National Automobile Dealer’s Association (NADA). There are actually dealer franchise laws in every state protecting car dealerships and preventing the company producing the cars from selling directly. Now, that goes against everything capitalism stands for. Remember when GM axed Oldsmobile? They got their pants sued off by all the dealers. Why? How is GM (or ANY car company) responsible for the livelihood of people who have nothing to do with the company? They should have all had to live with it.

I mean, it’s like GM should sue Americans for not buying more Camaros!