[apexit53]

FS needs a revival somehow. Moving the M3 might help but i think part of the issue is people who buy a 1le are more likely to do events like this over people with 1ss non 1le. You see a lot more PP1 mustangs in FS nationally.

Nats so far
FS is 9 car class, 4 mustangs no camaros.... and one tesla? lol
BS is a 33 car class 7 camaros 4 mustangs. mostly porsches and BMWs and some supras.

It seems crazy but most competitive autocrossers a car has a 2-4 year life expectancy to be competitive. Its just the way the sport is.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by apexit53

FS needs a revival somehow. Moving the M3 might help but i think part of the issue is people who buy a 1le are more likely to do events like this over people with 1ss non 1le. You see a lot more PP1 mustangs in FS nationally.

I agree.

Question: is the PP2 Mustang on par with a GT350 and SS 1LE for solo competition? I ask because if it is, then the Mustang has a package similar to the 1LE package that makes it equally accessible. In that case, then I see nothing wrong with Concept 1 in the SEB proposal. OTOH, if the GT350 is only Mustang that's competitive with an SS 1LE, that basically eliminates the Mustang for FS if the track-pack cars get moved into that class. Has anyone even tried to campaign a PP2 in BS?

[apexit53]

Originally Posted by Msquared

I agree.

Question: is the PP2 Mustang on par with a GT350 and SS 1LE for solo competition? I ask because if it is, then the Mustang has a package similar to the 1LE package that makes it equally accessible. In that case, then I see nothing wrong with Concept 1 in the SEB proposal. OTOH, if the GT350 is only Mustang that's competitive with an SS 1LE, that basically eliminates the Mustang for FS if the track-pack cars get moved into that class. Has anyone even tried to campaign a PP2 in BS?

ford has made like 6 cars to compete with the 1LE.

The gt350 is arguably better but 20G more in price. The PP2 might be a good option but the trans shift fork issues scare me away.

Personally if youre looking a a ford, the new Mach 1 with the handeling package will be the one to have(assuming they put it in the same class as the 1LE)

Bullet motor with oil cooling(over heating an issue on the PP2), gt350 tremic trans, PP2 everything else. I've only seen in reviews that poeple dont like some aspects of the steering on the pp2. it can be a little numb compared to the 1LE.

A ford comparison to a 1LE would be PP2, GT350(non R), and Mach 1 handling package(if they put it in the same class and i dont see why they wouldnt.)

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by apexit53

The gt350 is arguably better but 20G more in price. The PP2 might be a good option but the trans shift fork issues scare me away.

Personally if youre looking a a ford, the new Mach 1 with the handeling package will be the one to have(assuming they put it in the same class as the 1LE)

Yeah, I've been doing a bit of research since posting that question. Basically, the PP2 or Mach1 with handling package will have ~130lbs more weight, but 1/2" wider front tires. Since the tires are 19", someone could also run 18x10.5/11 in Street and use 315/30/18 tires front and rear. So maybe the weight and tires are a wash? The Mach1 appears to fix the transmission, and gets some suspension bits from the GT350 which might improve the geometry from the PP2. Basically it looks like a GT350 without the buzzsaw engine.

To be clear, I'm not looking for a Mustang. I'm just interested in a way for Mustang shoppers to have an accessible "track pony" that competes with the 1LE if the SEB actually follows through on Concept 1. It will be more expensive than the SS 1LE, but not limited production or as expensive (or marked up) as the GT350. So that bodes well for Concept 1, which seems like the most likely move for the SEB to make.

[Scargoes]

Originally Posted by apexit53

It seems crazy but most competitive autocrossers a car has a 2-4 year life expectancy to be competitive. Its just the way the sport is.

I am surely not that wealthy, nor competitive, to replace my car all that often. It would be nice to find a car that will last 10 years or so like the Evo in Tom Berry's hands. Although I'm not sure how much longer that will be competitive.

[DaveC113]

You can't keep cars from improving...

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by apexit53

It seems crazy but most competitive autocrossers a car has a 2-4 year life expectancy to be competitive. Its just the way the sport is.

Originally Posted by Scargoes

I am surely not that wealthy, nor competitive, to replace my car all that often. It would be nice to find a car that will last 10 years or so like the Evo in Tom Berry's hands. Although I'm not sure how much longer that will be competitive.

It's important to keep in mind that apexit's point really applies mostly to Street classes, where almost no mods are allowed. One of the main reasons there are so many classes that allow more mods is that they provide a competitive place for cars no longer competitive in Street. There's simply no way to make enough Street classes such that most cars over the past 60 years ago remain comepitive.

[apexit53]

Originally Posted by Msquared

It's important to keep in mind that apexit's point really applies mostly to Street classes, where almost no mods are allowed. One of the main reasons there are so many classes that allow more mods is that they provide a competitive place for cars no longer competitive in Street. There's simply no way to make enough Street classes such that most cars over the past 60 years ago remain comepitive.

absolutly! Cam youd be fine for years!

[Hasti]

Originally Posted by apexit53

FS needs a revival somehow. Moving the M3 might help but i think part of the issue is people who buy a 1le are more likely to do events like this over people with 1ss non 1le. You see a lot more PP1 mustangs in FS nationally.

I consistently have seen it the other way around, base ss over 1le, pp1 over pp2 gt350

Originally Posted by apexit53

It seems crazy but most competitive autocrossers a car has a 2-4 year life expectancy to be competitive. Its just the way the sport is.

eh idk, you could run a 2005 s197 in fstreet until the 2016 ss came out, similar tires 8.5 or 9, compared to 10 and 11 on 1le

[apexit53]

Originally Posted by Hasti

I consistently have seen it the other way around, base ss over 1le, pp1 over pp2 gt350

eh idk, you could run a 2005 s197 in fstreet until the 2016 ss came out, similar tires 8.5 or 9, compared to 10 and 11 on 1le

depends. locally or nationally. Cause nationally is what the SCCA bases classes over. locally, yeah you get a lot more "bases" but they don't show up to Nats. and thats where, lets be honest, the scca makes its money.

I will say this... having raced my car a few times at least for autocross I wish the 1LE had a regular LSD and not an Ediff.

[foshjowler]

Originally Posted by apexit53

depends. locally or nationally. Cause nationally is what the SCCA bases classes over. locally, yeah you get a lot more "bases" but they don't show up to Nats. and thats where, lets be honest, the scca makes its money.

I will say this... having raced my car a few times at least for autocross I wish the 1LE had a regular LSD and not an Ediff.

Locally, most any car can be competitive in the hands of a decent driver. It's really only nationally that the car matters

[5inn]

Originally Posted by apexit53

depends. locally or nationally. Cause nationally is what the SCCA bases classes over. locally, yeah you get a lot more "bases" but they don't show up to Nats. and thats where, lets be honest, the scca makes its money.

I will say this... having raced my car a few times at least for autocross I wish the 1LE had a regular LSD and not an Ediff.

What don’t you like about the e-diff?

I’d be curious to try that autocross specific calibration that GM released but not Street class legal.

[apexit53]

Originally Posted by 5inn

What don’t you like about the e-diff?

I’d be curious to try that autocross specific calibration that GM released but not Street class legal.

yeah I wish it was. though if the current proposals for STU go thorough it would be legal for that class.. and honestly this car would be fun in STU spec.

My issue with the diff compared to my 17 1ss(base) is I can kinda feel it thinking out how and were to put the power down. its oddly tail happy... oddly compared to my other one lol. its a lot less predictable and a little inconsistent between runs.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by apexit53

depends. locally or nationally. Cause nationally is what the SCCA bases classes over. locally, yeah you get a lot more "bases" but they don't show up to Nats. and thats where, lets be honest, the scca makes its money.

I will say this... having raced my car a few times at least for autocross I wish the 1LE had a regular LSD and not an Ediff.

Do they?

There are more “regional” events than official, “national” events across the country... I bet if you looked at pure entries and than compared “those who compete at national events” vs “those that only do regional” you’d see a greater number in those regional.

FS entries in Solo Nats is typically, what, 30-40-ish? I think there’s more than 30-40 fairly consistent regional entrants that don’t go to national events (or at least consistently) in this country. I mean, how many of those 30-40 entrants are 1-time shows? Maybe i'm wrong, but that’s my deductive reason coupled with what I’ve noticed in regional competition.

I think putting out the point about cars and progressing is not the best argument given SCCA’s history with classing for cars like Miatas and Corvettes. God forbid you class a C7 Z06 with a C5 Z06 or NA with a NC or ND.