[cvp33]

I predict we’ll never see another F/E ICE in the top 5 again for the lightning lap. In fact, the new GT3RS, GT2 and the new ZR1 will take at least #3, #4 and #5 pushing the old C7 ZR1 even further back. This is all assuming that McLaren doesn’t offer up another track weapon in the next 18 months to toe-wedge their way in there. The best news, which wasn’t true 10 years ago, is GM is in the conversation and competitive against all comers…….and it takes an M/E chassis to compete. Having 2 possibly 3 Corvettes in the top 10 is absolutely awesome.

[Revalot]

Deleted post.

[JG853]

@NG329 - This is exactly right. What I was posting in my thread is that the C8 Z06 is on a completely superior Hero Lap tire - Just like the Porsche team used in 2018 (they ran a different version of the Cup2R compound) on their GT2RS. Without those tires the GT2RS ran a 7:03X in 2018 at The Ring. Put the C8 Z06 Cup2R tire on a C7 ZR1 and it will absolutely destroy a C8 Z06 on any road course. Even on a C7 Z06 Z07 should run very equal to a C8 Z06 Z07 on Cup 2R tires (Equal drivers). The C7 ZR1 never had a tire designed for it like the C8 Z06 Z07. Jim Mero was asked if he could change one thing what would it be? Tires designed for the C7 ZR1. He has a podcast all about it.

In fact, Randy P just ran a C8 Z06 Z07 Big Willow and his time was .1 second better than he ran when testing a C7 Z06 Z07 (Again the C8 Z06 Z07 is on a far superior tire - That being the Cup2R).

Finally, the only reason I wrote about 1/4 mile times (Comparing Will Farmers best times in a C8 Z06, C7 Z06, C7 ZR1) - The C8 Z06 basically posted the same time and MPH as a C7 Z06 (Both had changed tires from OEM)... And that is with all of the advances in a C8 Z06 - Way better launch control, ME platform, to name a few).

Now I am not saying a ZLE is better than a C8 Z06 Z07. What I am saying is that the margin will be closer than what the previous times and tests are showing if the ZLE has equal tires to a C8 Z06 Z07.

Finally, the C8 Z06 engine is not going to be able to be tuned so you will be "stuck" at 670HP. Plus the gearing is not ideal in the C8 Z06 with 5th gear being a drop gear.

Either way, all nice cars!

Originally Posted by NG329

I love the journalist tests as well.

MEs are not a perfect platform though. They lack front end feel especially under braking. I've driven a ton of Mid engine cars and the front ends are all shitty (my opinion of course). You drive them with "Trust" as opposed to "Feel". I drove on track with a buddy who has a 911 Turbo S (992) and whatever lengths he would pull on me exiting corners I would claw it back on the brakes and corner entries. FE excel on corner entry. What mids do well is they put the power down much better than a front engine (especially mid corner and exiting corners) and that's just physics. Steering is also another area where the C8 Z has been criticized. Obviously none of us here have driven them (yet) so we're going by journalist data. If you're an expert driver and you're comfortable playing with slip angle in turns, then I guess this convo is pretty pointless.

The AMG-GT is considered Front mid because it's behind the front axle but it's technically a front engine car and it pretty much owned the Nurburgring up until Porsche's latest attempt. It's also #2 on that Lightning Lap list. Shed 400-500lbs on a ZLE and it's running with pretty much anything out there.

I respect guys who want to buy the best reviewed car in the magazines/youtube vids.... and get to keep their warranties. Just don't be disappointed when the guy who worked his Mustang handles your bone stock super car - like the one in this vid. For a little bit of context this guy ran a 1:30 at Laguna Seca with a bone stock MP412c on Goodyears IIRC. That's a 12 year old car. The manufacturer's quoted performance numbers for the MP412c on street tires equal the C8 Z06's numbers.



The limitation of magazine reviews is journalists just run the cars as delivered. They don't even touch tires. Sometimes a little setup goes a long way. Strip the seats out of the ZL1 amongst other things, throw on some Hoosier A7 and consider that gap bridged.

I guess what I'm mainly saying is, don't focus so much on the data. Just get what moves you and get the car that you think would give you the most enjoyment. Anything can be made to go faster.

btw: nice home and nice collection of cars sir.

[FarmerFran]

OK, back to the OP... if you want

A - a track weapon, Porsche
B - a car to cruise in specific cases, C7
C - the worlds best CAMARO ever built, ZL1

[RobZL1]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

OK, back to the OP... if you want

A - a track weapon, Porsche
B - a car to cruise in specific cases, C7
C - the worlds best CAMARO ever built, ZL1

I live my life a quarter-mile at a time. Nothing else matters: not the mortgage, not the store, not my team, and all their bullsh!t. For those ten seconds or less in my ZL1, I'm free.

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by RobZL1

I live my life a quarter-mile at a time. Nothing else matters: not the mortgage, not the store, not my team, and all their bullsh!t. For those ten seconds or less in my ZL1, I'm free.

This still creeps me out

[cvp33]

Originally Posted by FarmerFran

OK, back to the OP... if you want

A - a track weapon, Porsche
B - a car to cruise in specific cases, C7
C - the worlds best CAMARO ever built, ZL1

@FarmerFran - Can’t argue with that.

@JG853 - Tires worth 7 seconds? Seriously? That’s your answer? Dear God.

@RobZL1 - Imagine that 10 second feeling lasting 30 minutes. That’s the difference between 1/4 mile runs and HPDE’s. It’s also my happy place. If you’re thinking about something else you’re in the tire wall.

[RobZL1]

Originally Posted by cvp33

@FarmerFran - Can’t argue with that.

@JG853 - Tires worth 7 seconds? Seriously? That’s your answer? Dear God.

@RobZL1 - Imagine that 10 second feeling lasting 30 minutes. That’s the difference between 1/4 mile runs and HPDE’s. It’s also my happy place. If you’re thinking about something else you’re in the tire wall.

I was just joking around. I can't afford the road course. If I could, I would do it. I love racing karts when I get an opportunity. I just can't justify the cost and risk of road course racing at this stage of my life.

[JG853]

Not one time did I ever say that Cup2Rs (When sizes are available) are worth 7 seconds at VIR. All I said was that the Cup2Rs will make a difference for the ZLE and close the margin a little bit, equal driver.

Where did you get from what I wrote that I thought they would be 7 seconds faster at VIR?

Originally Posted by cvp33

@FarmerFran - Can’t argue with that.

@JG853 - Tires worth 7 seconds? Seriously? That’s your answer? Dear God.

@RobZL1 - Imagine that 10 second feeling lasting 30 minutes. That’s the difference between 1/4 mile runs and HPDE’s. It’s also my happy place. If you’re thinking about something else you’re in the tire wall.

[cvp33]

To put it in perspective. Moving from Cup2R’s to Hoosier slicks is worth just under 2 seconds at VIR. So back to the ZR1 F/E vs. Z06 M/E question. So why does a 755hp with 715tq F/E car lose to a 670hp with 460tq M/E car? That’s right, 85 fewer ponies and 255 less ft/lbs of torque! Because the M/E chassis is superior at putting the power down on a racetrack. It’s not the tires!

[JG853]

First - Let me be perfectly clear - A C8 Z06 Z07 is not faster at VIR than a C7 ZR1 (ZTK) even with superior Cup2R tires. You will need to wait for the C8 ZR1. It has been already proven that a Cup2R is 3 - 4 seconds faster than that of a Cup2 at VIR. It is a far superior tire. Furthermore, Randy Probst just tested a C8 Z06 Z07 at Big Willow and it was .1 seconds faster on a smaller, tight turned track than VIR, than what he posted from his time on a C7 Z06 Z07 on Cup2s at Big Willow...

You quoted the recent LL magazine times. The C7 ZR1 still owns the record a VIR (And that was on Cup2s not Cup2Rs) A C7 ZR1 with Hoosiers will be even faster than Cup2Rs. Where did you get your data from?

Furthermore, at the Ring the Porsche team had to change the tires on the 2018 GT2RS to Cup2Rs in order to reduce their time from 7:03X to sub 6:50... to set the record. All that was from a simple tire change to the designed Cup2R (Which all of us Corvette guys called cheater tires back then). Then, Mercedes took theri AMG GTR Black Series, albeit a Front Mid Engine design (Along with the option of 2 types of Cup2R tires to pick from) and set record for fastest time at the Ring (Stock).

The C8 Z06 has superior launch control out of the hole. It has a DCT and several advances in aero, ME platform, Carbon Wheels etc. GM also noted specifically during the launch of the C8 Z06 it's bespoke engine and tires that were designed for it - the Cup2R.

Take a listen to what Jim Mero says himself - If he could change one thing on the C7 ZR1 what would it be? Not aero, not ME design, not a DCT, etc... He said tires designed for the C7 ZR1!

https://podcasts.adorilabs.com/corve...9kEPiivUWI8ER2


There is a reason GM switched to CUP2Rs that were designed for the C8 Z06 from the regular Cup 2... It is not because they are slower.

Originally Posted by cvp33

To put it in perspective. Moving from Cup2R’s to Hoosier slicks is worth just under 2 seconds at VIR. So back to the ZR1 F/E vs. Z06 M/E question. So why does a 755hp with 715tq F/E car lose to a 670hp with 460tq M/E car? That’s right, 85 fewer ponies and 255 less ft/lbs of torque! Because the M/E chassis is superior at putting the power down on a racetrack. It’s not the tires!

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

The C7 ZR1 went 2:37.2 with engineer driver Jim Mero. The C8 Z06 went 2:38.6 in lightning lap. So the ZR1 still has the best time around VIR by some margin over the C8 Z06 when comparing the two times. Anyone know if Mero set a time at VIR in the C8 Z06?

[NG329]

Originally Posted by JG853

First - Let me be perfectly clear - A C8 Z06 Z07 is not faster at VIR than a C7 ZR1 (ZTK) even with superior Cup2R tires. You will need to wait for the C8 ZR1. It has been already proven that a Cup2R is 3 - 4 seconds faster than that of a Cup2 at VIR. It is a far superior tire. Furthermore, Randy Probst just tested a C8 Z06 Z07 at Big Willow and it was .1 seconds faster on a smaller, tight turned track than VIR, than what he posted from his time on a C7 Z06 Z07 on Cup2s at Big Willow...

You quoted the recent LL magazine times. The C7 ZR1 still owns the record a VIR (And that was on Cup2s not Cup2Rs) A C7 ZR1 with Hoosiers will be even faster than Cup2Rs. Where did you get your data from?

Furthermore, at the Ring the Porsche team had to change the tires on the 2018 GT2RS to Cup2Rs in order to reduce their time from 7:03X to sub 6:50... to set the record. All that was from a simple tire change to the designed Cup2R (Which all of us Corvette guys called cheater tires back then). Then, Mercedes took theri AMG GTR Black Series, albeit a Front Mid Engine design (Along with the option of 2 types of Cup2R tires to pick from) and set record for fastest time at the Ring (Stock).

The C8 Z06 has superior launch control out of the hole. It has a DCT and several advances in aero, ME platform, Carbon Wheels etc. GM also noted specifically during the launch of the C8 Z06 it's bespoke engine and tires that were designed for it - the Cup2R.

Take a listen to what Jim Mero says himself - If he could change one thing on the C7 ZR1 what would it be? Not aero, not ME design, not a DCT, etc... He said tires designed for the C7 ZR1!

https://podcasts.adorilabs.com/corve...9kEPiivUWI8ER2


There is a reason GM switched to CUP2Rs that were designed for the C8 Z06 from the regular Cup 2... It is not because they are slower.

C7 ZR1 on equal tires, it's not even close. ZR1 > C8 Z06

Mid Engine is not "Superior". It's just better at putting the power down from a dig. At risk of oversimplification, FE better on Corner entires. ME better on Corner exits.

They basically threw the fattest stickiest tire on the C8 Z06 to just barely pip the C7 ZR1's time at Lightning Lap. This isn't rocket science.

[cvp33]

Sometimes we defend what we can afford.

Give me an underpowered M/E all day long. The Mero comment makes it even more obvious and refutes what others have said. The magazine drivers felt more planted at the limit in a M/E car and thus ran a faster time in the C8Z vs the ZR1. Also telling is that Randy Probst ran a faster time in the M/E C8Z and GT3 than he did in the Z06 and ZR1. I’ll take those as way more qualitative from a data perspective than one hero lap supposedly run by Mero that was never base lined against other cars same day, same track etc.

Sorry fellas, F/E is less capable, as evidenced by your own comments and the slower ZR1 time while holding an 85hp and 255tq advantage. Why did it lose with so much more power? That’s right, inferior chassis incapable of putting that horsepower and torque advantage to use.

Maybe it was the tires? LOL