[Arex]

Originally Posted by Baywire

I would recommend never buying an overpriced Toyota.

Again and again Lexus proves just how good they are at selling you a Toyota. Top Gear does some good reviews on the F series from Lexus, I'd recommend watching them because Top Gear (with its original cast) was not bought out by brands such as the majority of other car review companies. They were always critical and generally unbiased when reviewing cars, where MotorTrend, Car and Driver, Road & Track are different stories.

If you want a GT card like an F type, then buy the Jaguar F Type. (But Jaguar isn't know fro their reliability either) That is a car that I've also bee looking into, however in comparisons (with many car options) I always seem to come back to the corvettes heavier twin, Camaro SS.

Now I actually really like what Lexus has done styling wise, but I don't trust their brand or their cars.

If you're looking for a GT car I think you'll find it hard to find another car that's as good as the Camaro for the price point. Magnetic Ride provides the best ride quality out there. (There's a reason that Ferrari "stole" it from GM and now put their own version in their cars) and the fact that it comes as an option for 1700 bucks is incredible.

This is just my two cents, I try not to be biased but again I think if you are fairly weighing all options and comparing vehicles head to head, I think you'll end up with a Camaro in your driveway.

Most will disagree with what Im about to say but hey, Im an honest guy and no harm in that.

I prefer the RCF, RS5, S5, F-Type, and even the Mustang gt350 exterior designs more than the 6gen Camaro SS. Again, those cars are all much more expensive than the 6th gen camaro, but when it comes to value, I dont think anyone of those can touch the camaro.

Im looking for a car that is a comfortable daily with luxury and has the qualities of a sportscar, then agaim reliability is at the top of my list. Im trying to give each car a fair fight in winning me over and the Camaro 2SS fits most of my requirements, the only issue is the visibility, which is why rhe m235i is also ontop of my list. Its a beautiful lightweight car, but why couldnt it have a naturally aspirated engine.

[Baywire]

Originally Posted by Arex

Most will disagree with what Im about to say but hey, Im an honest guy and no harm in that.

I prefer the RCF, RS5, S5, F-Type, and even the Mustang gt350 exterior designs more than the 6gen Camaro SS. Again, those cars are all much more expensive than the 6th gen camaro, but when it comes to value, I dont think anyone of those can touch the camaro.

Im looking for a car that is a comfortable daily with luxury and has the qualities of a sportscar, then agaim reliability is at the top of my list. Im trying to give each car a fair fight in winning me over and the Camaro 2SS fits most of my requirements, the only issue is the visibility, which is why rhe m235i is also ontop of my list. Its a beautiful lightweight car, but why couldnt it have a naturally aspirated engine.

No definitely, I totally understand. Like I said before, I'm a fan of the Lexus RCF styling and I like the styling on a lot of those cars that you mentioned.

I think the thing is, you don't buy a car only for styling. No car is perfect and like I said before, I keep coming to the conclusion that I should buy a Camaro. I'm sure when I get it and start driving it I will find at least 10 things that I dislike/hate about it, whether it be a styling thing, performance thing or quality of product thing.

I always try to weigh all options against one another. Styling only makes you so happy, you can't see the exterior styling while you're driving the car so I hope you'd be ok with whatever performance comes with the car you purchase.

As for a DD with luxury interior, I think you're undervaluing the Camaro's 2SS interior. If you haven't already I would recommend going to the dealership and looking around and sit in one if you could. It's not "luxury" it's not Mercedes or Cadillac, but the quality and styling are much better than most people think.

I've never been a fan of BMW interiors, (exteriors I do like) and the 235i can't have a NA engine because, and sorry if I'm hurting anyone's fan feelings, Germany cannot build engines. The 2.0L Turbo Camaro is putting out 45 less HP than the 235i is and the 235i has got a full liter and 2 more pistons. Germany makes small engines with low outputs and throw forced induction on them to increase the power because they have to so they can compete.

I'm not bashing forced induction either, I'm sad that because the Camaro SS is NA there isn't anything I can do easily to increase the power. Most of the Bolt Ons for this car are actually pretty labor intensive. I know we can get a Supercharger and there is a company making a Twin Turbo kit for the 2016+ SS. But the fact that it's going to be an afterthought makes is very unappealing. Definitely jealous of the fact my Audi friends can throw a tune into their cars and increase the performance and not change any hardware (To a certain point). Where as for the Camaro you immediately have to replace hardware to see significant gains. All of this said, for 45k I can buy a lot of cars, putting engine specs against one another, you might not be able to find a car with the same performance for the same price.

[Arex]

Originally Posted by Baywire

No definitely, I totally understand. Like I said before, I'm a fan of the Lexus RCF styling and I like the styling on a lot of those cars that you mentioned.

I think the thing is, you don't buy a car only for styling. No car is perfect and like I said before, I keep coming to the conclusion that I should buy a Camaro. I'm sure when I get it and start driving it I will find at least 10 things that I dislike/hate about it, whether it be a styling thing, performance thing or quality of product thing.

I always try to weigh all options against one another. Styling only makes you so happy, you can't see the exterior styling while you're driving the car so I hope you'd be ok with whatever performance comes with the car you purchase.

As for a DD with luxury interior, I think you're undervaluing the Camaro's 2SS interior. If you haven't already I would recommend going to the dealership and looking around and sit in one if you could. It's not "luxury" it's not Mercedes or Cadillac, but the quality and styling are much better than most people think.

I've never been a fan of BMW interiors, (exteriors I do like) and the 235i can't have a NA engine because, and sorry if I'm hurting anyone's fan feelings, Germany cannot build engines. The 2.0L Turbo Camaro is putting out 45 less HP than the 235i is and the 235i has got a full liter and 2 more pistons. Germany makes small engines with low outputs and throw forced induction on them to increase the power because they have to so they can compete.

I'm not bashing forced induction either, I'm sad that because the Camaro SS is NA there isn't anything I can do easily to increase the power. Most of the Bolt Ons for this car are actually pretty labor intensive. I know we can get a Supercharger and there is a company making a Twin Turbo kit for the 2016+ SS. But the fact that it's going to be an afterthought makes is very unappealing. Definitely jealous of the fact my Audi friends can throw a tune into their cars and increase the performance and not change any hardware (To a certain point). Where as for the Camaro you immediately have to replace hardware to see significant gains. All of this said, for 45k I can buy a lot of cars, putting engine specs against one another, you might not be able to find a car with the same performance for the same price.

Yep, the only gripe I have on the gen6 is yes.. the greenhouse and visibility. I feel so cramped in there and Im not even big. 5'11 195lbs.

[Noob]

nice reading here about our german cars, haha.
I can tell you here it´s a bit the way around. US cars are still imports with rare dealers. But most US repair parts are not expensive despite all the transport or tax.
New brakes on a C7 from a dealershop are still 1/3 cheaper than Porsches.
But i heard some claim fading and soften pedalfeeling after 3 full stops from 200km/h to zero. C7´s comes in EU version with Z51 package only. Still it has smaller front rotors than a OPEL Astra OPC !
yeah our Autobahn driving puts muuch more stress on all car somponents when you drive aggressive ;-)
btw. Ford sold over 16000 Mustangs in europe (in germany every 3rd is a convertible and over 70% are V8) !!! Chevy none of the Camaro yet.....and i doubt people will change to Camaro in a year or two.

[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by Noob

nice reading here about our german cars, haha.
I can tell you here it´s a bit the way around. US cars are still imports with rare dealers. But most US repair parts are not expensive despite all the transport or tax.
New brakes on a C7 from a dealershop are still 1/3 cheaper than Porsches.
But i heard some claim fading and soften pedalfeeling after 3 full stops from 200km/h to zero. C7´s comes in EU version with Z51 package only. Still it has smaller front rotors than a OPEL Astra OPC !
yeah our Autobahn driving puts muuch more stress on all car somponents when you drive aggressive ;-)
btw. Ford sold over 16000 Mustangs in europe (in germany every 3rd is a convertible and over 70% are V8) !!! Chevy none of the Camaro yet.....and i doubt people will change to Camaro in a year or two.

sorry buddy, the C7 cars are designed for track use, and your autobahn is just a highway.

judging brakes by the size of the rotor, congrats.

[Baywire]

Originally Posted by Noob

nice reading here about our german cars, haha.
I can tell you here it´s a bit the way around. US cars are still imports with rare dealers. But most US repair parts are not expensive despite all the transport or tax.
New brakes on a C7 from a dealershop are still 1/3 cheaper than Porsches.
But i heard some claim fading and soften pedalfeeling after 3 full stops from 200km/h to zero. C7´s comes in EU version with Z51 package only. Still it has smaller front rotors than a OPEL Astra OPC !
yeah our Autobahn driving puts muuch more stress on all car somponents when you drive aggressive ;-)
btw. Ford sold over 16000 Mustangs in europe (in germany every 3rd is a convertible and over 70% are V8) !!! Chevy none of the Camaro yet.....and i doubt people will change to Camaro in a year or two.

Cars in Europe are taxed based on Engine Displacement. It's not fiscally responsible to sell Camaro's or regular/stock Corvettes (6.2L) in Europe because GM wont make a profit unless the prices skyrocket which makes consumers less likely to buy.

Mustangs on the other hand (5.0L), have smaller displacement but still have a v8. It sells so well over in Europe because every company that makes an 8 cylinder plus car sells it for exorbitant prices (AMG, M Brand, RS Brand not counting the super car brands) that the general consumer cannot afford. However, a big motor American Pony sports car is reasonably priced.

I like the Mustang, but I'd never buy one because I don't think I can trust a car that takes 50 years to produce an independent rear suspension lmao! (Also with the Mustang meme going around I'd play it save and get one once the fire is out).

But for the direction this thread is going, test drive one, (if you're interested), and based on some of the cars you've chosen, money doesn't seem to be a huge issue so shop around and test everything that you might be interested in. Buying a car is a commitment that you don't want to have buyers remorse of.

[MGD]

sorry buddy, the C7 cars are designed for track use, and your autobahn is just a highway.

judging brakes by the size of the rotor, congrats.

You obviously have never driven on the autobahn. It sure is faster than Willow Springs, which is a 'Track"
Bigger rotors, bigger pads equals more contact surface. More contact surface equals more friction. More friction equals better stopping power, congrats.

[LesBaer]

Originally Posted by Arex

Les Baer, thanks for your input.

I noticed you have the 6 piston upgrade, is it really worth $1500 just to have the front brakes upgraded? I feel like for $1500, you can get better aftermarket kits and for all four corners. I may be wrong.

Sorry for the delay, I'm just looking at this thread again now. If I remember correctly, MSRP on the 6 piston upgrade was a lot more than 1500, but I paid supplier pricing on my order. For me it's worth it, but I haven't been able to test them side by side. My car is putting down a lot more power now vs. stock and I haven't had any problems stopping. Keep in mind though that I have the M6 and not an automatic. It's much easier to slow down when you have full control over the gear selection.

If I could do it again, I would definitely get the Brembo upgrade. If or when I sell the car, I guarantee you that there will be a glut of gen6's on the market. If you were shopping for a used SS, I would bet you would choose the Camaro with the 6 pistons. The extra cost will depreciate at the same rate as the car. The giant slotted rotors they come with and the giant red Brembo calipers look amazing up close. Nothing draws more attention on the car (on the outside at least). You also get your stock rotors and brakes with the car.

If you don't want to spend the $ on the Brembo option, try getting better pads. Pads are cheap and worked for me on another car. Huge improvement over OEM pads, at least on a Charger.

[Cruz'n 45th]

Great information from everyone. My buddy and I have been going back and forth on who would win between our vehicles. He has a 2015 S5 Auto and I, a 2016 2SS A8, NPP, and MRC. No add ons on either vehicle. 0-60 from stop? Roll? How about a road course? Thought and opinions welcomed. Experience even better. Thanks!

[human29]

Originally Posted by Cruz'n 45th

Great information from everyone. My buddy and I have been going back and forth on who would win between our vehicles. He has a 2015 S5 Auto and I, a 2016 2SS A8, NPP, and MRC. No add ons on either vehicle. 0-60 from stop? Roll? How about a road course? Thought and opinions welcomed. Experience even better. Thanks!

I have owned several Audi's and except on 0-60, the S5 might win 4 out of 10 due to AWD that S5 is not even in the same breath as the camaro. It pushes like a pig in corners and weighs over 2 tons. The supercharger torque feels nice to the butt but the V8 in the camaro is just smooth power and would walk the S5.