[shaffe]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

How many Mustangs sold in China compared to Cadillacs?

True world wide the gap in volume is probably bigger. my numbers were US only. Do you happen to have any numbers? All I could find was total S550 global sales in 2015 was 141,868.

Originally Posted by hotlap

But 21,285 Mustangs were rental cars compared to only 2,718 Camaro's. Camaro’s average transaction price was $5,722 higher than Mustang.

True that we don’t know the profitability of each model but overall Aplha volume is higher and they are all selling for quite a bit more than the discount S550. Cadillac’s and +$5,722 Camaro’s or 9,518 fewer cheapo Mustangs?

Retail ATP's 2017 (JDPin)
Camaro: $39,514
Challenger: $35,498
Mustang: $33,792

Retail Sales 2017
Camaro: 65,222
Mustang: 60,581
Challenger: 45,821

The original quote was

Originally Posted by JusticePete

While the sales numbers are not huge for any one model, the three together are profitable, so profitable a company like Ford only dreams about selling the chassis the Mustang is on in those numbers.

That last part to me, "dreams about selling the chassis is on in those numbers" That is all about volume the way I read it which is why I responded

Originally Posted by shaffe

If we are just talking straight numbers


2017

Mustang 81866
Camaro 67940
CTS 10344
ATS 13100

The Alpha trio total volume was 9518 cars more than the S550, that's not a huge gap, in 2016 it was even less and same for 15.

Now profit is something no one knows so if you want to argue the Alpha is more profitable I would love to see the profit each makes on each model lol

Seeing as how we don't know how much profit is made on each car, I don't think throwing ATP's around is solid argument. It's a fluff stat to me IMO.

The retail/fleet is a bit more relevant IMO. So alpha is most likely more profitable, like I said though the way I read was volume.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by shaffe

True world wide the gap in volume is probably bigger. my numbers were US only. Do you happen to have any numbers? All I could find was total S550 global sales in 2015 was 141,868.



The original quote was



That last part to me, "dreams about selling the chassis is on in those numbers" That is all about volume the way I read it which is why I responded



Seeing as how we don't know how much profit is made on each car, I don't think throwing ATP's around is solid argument. It's a fluff stat to me IMO.

The retail/fleet is a bit more relevant IMO. So alpha is most likely more profitable, like I said though the way I read was volume.

All good.

GM is finally focused on profit and not volume. They are doing it right and we can expect great cars from them for a long time to come.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

All good.

GM is finally focused on profit and not volume. They are doing it right and we can expect great cars from them for a long time to come.

[GuywithL86]

Are you guys kidding me, alpha chassis is a huge flop.

It’s likely the best chassis ever used on a mass production car, and I was floored the first time I drove one. Forget the camaro sales, the ats and cts are just as incredible, yet they are a complete flop. GM spent over a billion on the alpha chassis development. If GM sells 90k alpha chassis per year, or 270k over 3 years, thats a whopping $4k per car just on the chassis r&d, not even on the materials or production. That has got to be a huge failure and it’s mostly on the cadillac side.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

Are you guys kidding me, alpha chassis is a huge flop.

It’s likely the best chassis ever used on a mass production car, and I was floored the first time I drove one. Forget the camaro sales, the ats and cts are just as incredible, yet they are a complete flop. GM spent over a billion on the alpha chassis development. If GM sells 90k alpha chassis per year, or 270k over 3 years, thats a whopping $4k per car just on the chassis r&d, not even on the materials or production. That has got to be a huge failure and it’s mostly on the cadillac side.

It's not the chassis. It's the fact that GM has no idea what to do with Cadillac. The cars that sell well for Cadillac are not the cars they want to be building. They aren't the wanna be German sporty luxury sedans. It's the Escalade and XTS.

The issue with Camaro is GM played it safe with the styling and ignored all the reviews pointing out how the issue with visibility. They listened to people that already owned Camaros and had adjusted to the sight lines, instead of making the car more user friendly and getting new customers.

[GuywithL86]

Fun fact, I was dailying a coyote mustang and decided to rent a cts for a road trip. The avis cts would have just completely run circles around my mustang. The first hard corner I took in the cts I’m just like wtf am I driving.

Also was blasting some back roads in VT in the cts, has to be one of the coolest roads in the country, and came across a c5 vette who was a crazy good driver. We were like seriously racing, tires screeching and all, I was right behind him and I barely trying and could have passed him with the worlds worst motor trans combo, the 3.6 v6, with the 8speed. (8 speed in the cts is nothing like the 8l90 in the SS)

[JusticePete]

Flop?

GM almost went away. Cadillac, once the universal standard of excellence became a badge engineered also ran. The ALPHA chassis, in particular the V series and Z series have earned the respect of automotive analysts world wide. They will keep building best in class automobiles and in time, sales will follow. It speaks volumes that GM is doing so well in China.

Rome wasn't built in a day. It will take Cadillac several generations of excellent cars to win back customers and market share. They are making money, turning record profits and that is the bottom line.

[2010REDSS]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

Are you guys kidding me, alpha chassis is a huge flop.

It’s likely the best chassis ever used on a mass production car, and I was floored the first time I drove one. Forget the camaro sales, the ats and cts are just as incredible, yet they are a complete flop. GM spent over a billion on the alpha chassis development. If GM sells 90k alpha chassis per year, or 270k over 3 years, thats a whopping $4k per car just on the chassis r&d, not even on the materials or production. That has got to be a huge failure and it’s mostly on the cadillac side.

More accurately, are YOU kidding ME??

http://www.gm.com/investors/earnings-releases.html

Don't slam someone's opinion without the facts. GM is doing very well lately, making much better cars and doing more with them, and making a shitload of money in the process. The alpha chassis is part of that success.

Facts are stubborn.

[GuywithL86]

Originally Posted by 2010REDSS

More accurately, are YOU kidding ME??

http://www.gm.com/investors/earnings-releases.html

Don't slam someone's opinion without the facts. GM is doing very well lately, making much better cars and doing more with them, and making a shitload of money in the process. The alpha chassis is part of that success.

Facts are stubborn.

GM sells about 10 million cars per year
They sell about 90,000 alpha chassis

So you go ahead and post the finacial status of the entire company as a rebuttal to me saying that the alpha chassis is a flop, which represents less than 1% of the total vehicle sales. Sound logic

Facts are stubborn

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

GM sells about 10 million cars per year
They sell about 90,000 alpha chassis

So you go ahead and post the finacial status of the entire company as a rebuttal to me saying that the alpha chassis is a flop, which represents less than 1% of the total vehicle sales. Sound logic

Facts are stubborn

Next you will tell us the Corvette is a bigger flop than ALPHA.

[BradfordCamaro]

Well. Since the Alpha chassis is stirring some controversy.... How about a Z/28 in a new or different (altered) chassis?

[Bhobbs]

The Alpha chassis is not the problem. Putting it on another chassis would be hugely expensive.

[Kise]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

Fun fact, I was dailying a coyote mustang and decided to rent a cts for a road trip. The avis cts would have just completely run circles around my mustang. The first hard corner I took in the cts I’m just like wtf am I driving.

Also was blasting some back roads in VT in the cts, has to be one of the coolest roads in the country, and came across a c5 vette who was a crazy good driver. We were like seriously racing, tires screeching and all, I was right behind him and I barely trying and could have passed him with the worlds worst motor trans combo, the 3.6 v6, with the 8speed. (8 speed in the cts is nothing like the 8l90 in the SS)

sounds like something my 4 year old nephew would make up lol

[Childs Play]

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

GM sells about 10 million cars per year
They sell about 90,000 alpha chassis

So you go ahead and post the finacial status of the entire company as a rebuttal to me saying that the alpha chassis is a flop, which represents less than 1% of the total vehicle sales. Sound logic

Facts are stubborn

Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?