[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by Sven59

The report is from 2016, It would suck to be last, sorry. Hey I thought you ignored me.

I did, but wasn't having any fun watching you flail around in magazine clippings LOL

[Boilermaker128]

8 years and no problems whatsoever? That's a stretch too hard to believe.

Dude 1, my car has been problem free!
Dude 2, what about that warranty replaced transmission?
Dude 1, they took care of it no hassle, wasn't a problem for me.
Dude 2, SMH that is a huge problem you shouldn't be trying to hide...
Dude 1, ... Go Me! I actively try to hide/downplay anything negative, and exaggerate all the good. The other issues were all due to the fact I tracked it. 100.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by Boilermaker128

8 years and no problems whatsoever? That's a stretch too hard to believe.

Dude 1, my car has been problem free!
Dude 2, what about that warranty replaced transmission?
Dude 1, they took care of it no hassle, wasn't a problem for me.
Dude 2, SMH that is a huge problem you shouldn't be trying to hide...
Dude 1, ... Go Me! I actively try to hide/downplay anything negative, and exaggerate all the good. The other issues were all due to the fact I tracked it. 100.

No issues at all and no warranty work. I did receive a recall notice for some air bag connector that I ignored if you want to count that, but that's it.

[Boilermaker128]

Still important details missing. The things you personally don't consider problems that a regular buyer would, and items you've upgraded because you knew they were weak links that are known to go bad. Maybe it's garage kept in bad weather, has a low 60,000km, driven by an experienced driver that has learned from his past mistakes.

Sign me up for a problem free 8 year old car. Don't hear it often.

[DenverTaco07]

Is it me, or is there some level of "elitism" going on in these vs. threads, a sort of "well I own such and such so my opinion matters and yours does not" or "I have a set of tools and a pretty garage and have done more work on cars so my opinion is the only one that matters".

Yes, us "bench racers" and "magazine readers" can actually have a valid point to make based on facts and reasoned thought processes too.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by Boilermaker128

Still important details missing. The things you personally don't consider problems that a regular buyer would, and items you've upgraded because you knew they were weak links that are known to go bad. Maybe it's garage kept in bad weather, has a low 60,000km, driven by an experienced driver that has learned from his past mistakes.

Sign me up for a problem free 8 year old car. Don't hear it often.

Well, I do proper maintenance and take care of my "stuff" in general, but you can't expect anything to be problem free if not properly maintained. My 14 year old 4Runner that I slapped a supercharger on 7 years ago has also been problem free other than one O2 sensor and a battery and I've driven it pretty hard with the blower and all.

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

Is it me, or is there some level of "elitism" going on in these vs. threads, a sort of "well I own such and such so my opinion matters and yours does not" or "I have a set of tools and a pretty garage and have done more work on cars so my opinion is the only one that matters".

Yes, us "bench racers" and "magazine readers" can actually have a valid point to make based on facts and reasoned thought processes too.

You don't have to avoid pointing your finger at me if you need to, and thanks for the compliment on my shop. If I seem elitist.... How is quoting magazine articles related to having an opinion and not simply regurgitating someone elses? The comments are just to insight an argument, so I treat those folks as the children they are.

As for opinions, go out and drive some of these other cars as I've suggested several times. Those that have, you'll notice, have a completely different "opinion" of things because they are based in reality and don't rely on magazine clippings for all of their information.

I drive every different kind of car I can get a seat in so I have a real understanding of the differences. I ripped around town in a Ferrari F430 yesterday for an hour and learned real quick that it's a fun car to drive at a level that will cost you your license, but SUCKS cruising around town with it's jerky shifting transmission at low speeds, and kidney bruising suspension over bumps at low speeds. Sounded beautiful at 7K RPM though! You also don't see me saying "the ZL1 is a POS" either.

I've gotten several PMs referencing SNs in this thread as clowns in general on this forum so apparently I'm just more vocal in public LOL. I would say sorry for that, but wouldn't mean it

[Sven59]

The chart from JD Power is not someone's opinion it is based on factual data. Do you use technical manuals? Is that someone's opinion? The data in the magazine tests is just that data to help form an idea of a cars overall performance. and capability, if you can't see that I feel sorry for you. When people search for information, who's opinion would they believe, Randy Pobst or a guy who rides a lawnmower with full leathers and a full face helmet? And thinking that a cars performance is only based on straight line performance is extremely narrow minded.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

I've gotten several PMs referencing SNs in this thread as clowns in general on this forum so apparently I'm just more vocal in public LOL. I would say sorry for that, but wouldn't mean it

SNs?


Just want to be clear, you are not refuting the mountains of data collected by multiple independent quality/reliability testing organizations that FCA as a brand is the worst domestic automaker, and one of the worst in the market in general, right?

[DenverTaco07]

I believe most users are here to learn from and help others when they can, they can give and take without the attempts at insults.
Then there is a very small minority of users who think they know everything and are here to prove it to the "children" and "magazine article clippers" and "bench racers". Most people can see the difference, and I'm happy for the forum that the latter is just a handful.

[Speedy1975]

Super - SN = Screen Name

I have no idea how those metrics are produced for that report. What I can tell you is based on my PERSONAL experience my Camaro has been in the shop 300% more than my Challenger. A more valid metric might be number of current model ZL1 repairs vs current model Hellcat repairs if we want to talk apples and apples since this thread is about ZL1 vs Hellcat.

I will tell you for sure the fit, finish, and materials in my 2009 Challenger are leaps and bounds ahead of the same in the Gen 5 SS RS Camaro I was going to buy back in 2010. I drove it, and was so turned off by the rattles, soft items, and over all fit and finish I was thankful I hadn't pre-ordered. My girl friend at the time was in the car with me and she even commented how cheap it felt. I was thrilled when they did a 180 on the Gen 6 and got it right IMO.

Is basing a car's performance 100% on it's road course performance any more valid?

I'm not touchy feely when it comes to forums, so if you're looking for that from me you'll be disappointed Denver, however I do agree forums are for learning, and not everything will be gleaned from simply reading about it.

Headed out to get the Challenger ready for a car show tomorrow, so until next time LOL

[Sven59]

You are right, you have no idea but you discount it's accuracy. You proved everyone's point.

[Speedy1975]

So because a magazine says so it's gospel regardless of my real world experience? Ok got it.

Gonna have fun telling folks about this at the car show today we get a good laugh or of you Sven LOL

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

So because a magazine says so it's gospel regardless of my real world experience? Ok got it.

Gonna have fun telling folks about this at the car show today we get a good laugh or of you Sven LOL

Don't forget to tell them that you think JD Power is a magazine, we all get a laugh out of that.

[2doorrocket]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

Super - SN = Screen Name

I have no idea how those metrics are produced for that report. What I can tell you is based on my PERSONAL experience my Camaro has been in the shop 300% more than my Challenger. A more valid metric might be number of current model ZL1 repairs vs current model Hellcat repairs if we want to talk apples and apples since this thread is about ZL1 vs Hellcat.

I will tell you for sure the fit, finish, and materials in my 2009 Challenger are leaps and bounds ahead of the same in the Gen 5 SS RS Camaro I was going to buy back in 2010. I drove it, and was so turned off by the rattles, soft items, and over all fit and finish I was thankful I hadn't pre-ordered. My girl friend at the time was in the car with me and she even commented how cheap it felt. I was thrilled when they did a 180 on the Gen 6 and got it right IMO.

Is basing a car's performance 100% on it's road course performance any more valid?

I'm not touchy feely when it comes to forums, so if you're looking for that from me you'll be disappointed Denver, however I do agree forums are for learning, and not everything will be gleaned from simply reading about it.

Headed out to get the Challenger ready for a car show tomorrow, so until next time LOL

LOL! My Challenger Hellcat is a pile of shit, not only can it not turn it can't go straight either, 4000 miles, 9 alignments, 3 dealership visits and referrals out to alignment shops, next they're going to replace its steering rack. Man this ZL1 needs to get here soon and actually both FCA and GM are reputable companies and they both make shitty cars, its how FCA treats you versus how GM treats you. You take your GM car in for service you get a rental and they want to fix it. You take your FCA car in, no rental, no nothing, even for Viper customers and half the time the FCA dealerships are so incompetent its incredible. Some of things service managers tell me I'd just like to punch them in the throat