[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by oldman

I believe the last factory use of STD was 1971.. just saying.

STD is just a correction factor that gives higher numbers. The change after 1971 was going from gross horsepower ratings (no accessories installed on the engine, no mufflers, etc) to net horsepower (tested like it's actually installed in the car). If I recall correctly, the 1971 Z28's LT1 engine was rated at 330hp, then with the change to net horsepower in 1972, it was rated at 255hp.

[biker2k]

I knew it was a noticeable difference from gross to todays standards but wow!

that's 75 horsepower from accessories and exhaust.....

but I guess that makes sense since they used very restrictive exhaust manifolds and I'm not sure if they had cats back then, I think it was like mid seventies like 75 ish.. and no accessories at all would probably net 20-30 hp back that....

[oldman]

Originally Posted by 70chevelleSS

my 1SS A8 weighed 3614 lbs with 1/4 tank of fuel and no driver.

I think my base 1ss M6 no options could be even lighter say 3600. So with the Oldlady in it (she only races autos) it would be under 3700 lbs. Toss out back seat, minimal washer fluid, lithium battery, headers no cats,toss all the beauty shielding 3600 lbs race weight with light driver is possible.

How much Hp for 127.66 MHP now?
https://robrobinette.com/et.htm?weig...x=0&submit.y=0

and that comes to 585 HP, getting more believable given a good DA and potential even more weight reduction: wheels, passenger seat etc. Of course, a high compression V8 with mild cam and LT headers is going to have more torque, which is more area under the curve, which would decrease the peak HP needed. Say 575 engine HP.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

STD is just a correction factor that gives higher numbers. The change after 1971 was going from gross horsepower ratings (no accessories installed on the engine, no mufflers, etc) to net horsepower (tested like it's actually installed in the car). If I recall correctly, the 1971 Z28's LT1 engine was rated at 330hp, then with the change to net horsepower in 1972, it was rated at 255hp.

The BHP to Net was a huge part of the decrease. But the STD to SAE was on temps of the operation, cooling, air etc. Also CR dropped a good bit across the board 71 to 72.

Point being 1971 was the last time STD was used in industry... nuff said. For 2018 it is complete Unicorn HP. Only Hennesy (and related) uses it for their customer's reference. Why would you want to mislead your customers about how much HP they are getting? That would be the question to ask.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

So you gained 120 hp max. 380 to 500. Ona different day etc. 575 hp max

You were only 380 std stock in 6th gear? That ridiculously low. SAE in 6th gear is usually around 400. Let alone std. but that depends on conditions

Yep, let's see a dyno with the same SAE of both runs. Seems like CF gaming to me. It is an old game, post a real dyno with the worst manipulation of CF or as measured for the baseline. Then on the final chart use STD, bingo the customer got an extra 25 HP to 40 HP because we are a super shop, tuner what not.

[danhr]

Originally Posted by oldman

Yep, let's see a dyno with the same SAE of both runs. Seems like CF gaming to me. It is an old game, post a real dyno with the worst manipulation of CF or as measured for the baseline. Then on the final chart use STD, bingo the customer got an extra 25 HP to 40 HP because we are a super shop, tuner what not.

Sure. Let me travel back in time, and get a baseline on which ever dyno you ask, I whatever correction factor you want, when my car was stock.

And then let me travel a little further in time and get you some dyno queen numbers with the factory converter and gears in it, on the same dyno, on the same day, and using the same correction factor, with the moons of Jupiter aligned the same way.

And then I will post a dyno of my car, in 1990, with Mars lined up Neptune, with the 4200 stall and gears, which dropped me 40 rwhp

Is there anything else I can do per your request sir?

[oldman]

Originally Posted by danhr

Sure. Let me travel back in time, and get a baseline on which ever dyno you ask, I whatever correction factor you want, when my car was stock.

No time travel needed. Just like your needing 60 PSI claim, there is no need to be on the same day same anything. Please just confirm that the 380 whp (363 SAE) figure you are claiming as a baseline is in STD, the same measurement as your final figure. You can leave all the red herrings on the dock. You seem very confrontational, and have many strawman, this is not a court, your figures seem hinky...

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by oldman

The BHP to Net was a huge part of the decrease. But the STD to SAE was on temps of the operation, cooling, air etc. Also CR dropped a good bit across the board 71 to 72.

The 1971 Z28 that I used as an example already had it's compression ratio lowered. The 1970 Z28, which had a higher compression ratio than '71, was rated at 360hp. So the rating dropped by 30hp on the old system with the lowered compression ratio. Not sure if they lowered the compression ratio again for 1972?

As far as SAE vs STD correction, yes the difference is the conditions that are considered 'normal'. I can illustrate the effects with an analysis of a run file from a Dynojet 250i (motorcycle), using Dynojet's software. The run was done at low altitude in the summer.
STD=247.97hp
SAE=241.70hp
UNCORRECTED=245.59hp
Sorry, I do not have any car run files, but obviously, the difference between the factors is a percentage, not a number.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by danhr

Sure. Let me travel back in time, and get a baseline on which ever dyno you ask, I whatever correction factor you want, when my car was stock.

And then let me travel a little further in time and get you some dyno queen numbers with the factory converter and gears in it, on the same dyno, on the same day, and using the same correction factor, with the moons of Jupiter aligned the same way.

And then I will post a dyno of my car, in 1990, with Mars lined up Neptune, with the 4200 stall and gears, which dropped me 40 rwhp

Is there anything else I can do per your request sir?

You are kind of over-reacting here. He just wants to know what your real gains were, which requires the baseline and modded to be printed with the same correction factor. To know the true gains, of course, the tests would need to be on the same dyno. Funny thing is, you had posted such a sheet already in your build thread. The sheet is in SAE correction, and it shows a baseline of 396.91hp, and modded with E85 was 480.59hp. So your mods gained 83.68hp on the same dyno, a 21% gain. Screen shot of your post where I got these numbers from is attached below.

[NickyRacerBoy]

There's so much nonsense on this thread it's ridiculous. sounds like a bunch of 14 year olds talking bullshit claims.

[D K]

Originally Posted by 18ss376

OP quit posting along time ago...lol

I'm just observing.

Lot of good info, but also lot of hate for some reason...



I'm just looking to see whats an economical way to get to a nice roadrace engine.

[JonD]

The internet is great!
I’ve run into keyboard warriors numerous times in here