[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlap

You are correct. Not the same. Also consider that the 18 refresh was just to catch up *.

It's a shame you view it that way, they are some incredibly fun vehicles.

[Lafourche1]

TherealJA105 I wish I would have tracked my car just once on the runflats so I had hard data to give to you guys that don't track, but I knew the stock wheels and tires weren't worth it so I changed them before.
Yes GT500 is too fat.

I did track my SS with the run flats. I tracked it with Continental ExtremeContact DW and with Michelin PS4S tires. I'll offer my impressions in the FWIW category.

The Goodyears were very stable. They had the highest cornering limits of the three. They held up to roughly 12 track sessions. They were done in by track debris (flat).

The Continentals were by far and away the most predictable. They had lower limits but they gave way in such a gradual manner that they were easy to balance at the limits. They talked to you, too as they approached their limits. With a 360 treadwear, they were harder tires, but held up well. Great tires to learn the car and for starting out in HPDE events.

The PS4S were the quietest of the tires. They were the poorest performers, too. They heat cycled out on Day 2 of a 2 day HPDE event. They were just not greasy, but actually a little iffy in the way that they would just let go. I am not a drifter, but I did gain some experience that I wasn't looking for.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Umm, I don't think so. Gen2 V's got the LSA - same as the 5th gen ZL1s. LS9 is a different animal and larger blower.

Originally Posted by ZRacerLE

I think the main difference between the ls9 and lsA, was that only the ls9 had forged pistons and crank?

Originally Posted by LS6-M22

The only other car that got the LS9 was the HSV GTS in Australia

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/090...ngine-history/

Originally Posted by hotlap

The LS9 had a 2.3L supercharger. The LSA had a 1.9L

The ZL1 getting small displacement superchargers is my biggest complain with Chevy. 1.9L on gen5 and 1.7L gen6. Heat soak

Dang, you guys would make a helluva choir! You all nailed that high note!

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Got you



That's the thing I think alot of people on all forums forget. So many of these cars are never driven close to their potential or pushed harder than accelerating hard onto the expressway or maybe a WOT pull from a stop light. the people that come onto forums and actually do push them hard and discuss how pushing them to the limits and what not is a small percentage of the people that own the cars.

And when the Frod fanboys finally do realize they bought an incomplete package they begin to talk about "poor visibility" and Mustang "sales numbers" to compensate for the fact they bought an inferior Pony Car.

Originally Posted by shaffe

I think the thing that always gets people is that they had an option available. they had the LS9 sitting there. Just like now they have the LT5 sitting there.( and yes I know I have argued that they have never put the ZR1 engine in anything else...but they could if they wanted to) I think that is what really rubs people the wrong way about it, is they see the competition continually updating and when GM has options available they are just like nah were good.

GT500 from 09-13 went from 500, to 540, to 550 to 662.
Hellcat has gone from 707, to 717, and now in RE trim to 797.

It's not like Ford or Dodge had a engine sitting there (well the RE did I guess, detuned Demon engine) where as GM does. That's what bugs me about it.

GM doesn't pander to the fanboys and continue to throw more HP/TQ, grip, cooling..etc at their cars. They set specific performance targets and once achieved they move on to the next project. Unlike Frod who just goes back and adds more crap to an incomplete package to satisfy the masses. And as we have seen over the past 10 or so years in a futile attempt to compete with GM performance cars unsuccessfully.

Originally Posted by shaffe

Probably the best way to line them up now is probably

GT to LT1
GT PP1 to SS
GT PP2 to SS 1LE

On the street, sure, not on a race track...especially if you are planning to run more than a few laps. For example. I ran an open track day at Summit Point Shenandoah circuit last summer. Ambient temps were 100 - 103, on track was over 120 deg. Three Mustangs in attendance. I ran more laps in my first 45 min session on the track than the three of them combined all day. They bailed at lunchtime... "too hot". Not for SS 1LE, I come off the track and turn on my AC and cool off for 10 mins or so before turning off the car, never opened the hood either. I didn't need to since all my temps were fine. Try that in any Frod stock mustang...good luck. For your viewing pleasure - Mustang free track day mentioned above...

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Dang, you guys would make a helluva choir! You all nailed that high note!

We are children when it comes to this stuff.

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I didn't forget the elsd, that's an obvious 1le exclusive advantage that I think most are aware of and dont have to mention.

I didnt mention the brakes because if im not mistaken, a regualr ss can get optioned with 6 piston fronts and 4 piston rears. Don't know if it comea with the same pads and rotors though.

I was just getting at the fact that a regular ss is pretty capable as well.

1LE brakes are an option, however, add all these options and how far off are you from just buying a 1LE? Also, the performance of a SS is not lost on me, they are fantastic, never implied otherwise.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by LESS1

And when the Frod fanboys finally do realize they bought an incomplete package they being to talk about "poor visibility" and Mustang "sales numbers" to compensate for the fact they bought an inferior Pony Car.

Yep

Originally Posted by LESS1

GM doesn't pander to the fanboys and continue to throw more HP/TQ, grip, cooling..etc at their cars. They set specific performance targets and once achieved they move on to the next project. Unlike Frod who just goes back and adds more crap to an incomplete package to satisfy the masses. And as we have seen over the past 10 or so years in a futile attempt to compete with GM performance cars unsuccessfully.

That's true. I guess I just like to see continually investing in a product and making it better instead of just saying here it is we are moving on to something else. Give me a reason to trade up or entice me to upgrade especially when the competition is doing it, or maybe I'll see what they are offering. And like I mentioned especially when you have a viable option could use.

Originally Posted by LESS1

On the street, sure, not on a race track...especially if you are planning to run more than a few laps. For example. I ran an open track day at Summit Point Shenandoah circuit last summer. Ambient temps were 100 - 103, on track was over 120 deg. Three Mustangs in attendance. I ran more laps in my first 45 mins on the rack than the three of them combined all day. They bailed at lunchtime... "too hot". Not for SS 1LE, I come off the track and turn on my AC and cool off for 10 mins or so before turning off the car, never opened the hood either. I didn't need to since all my temps were fine. Try that in any Frod stock mustang...good luck.

Yes that was purely just on the type of equipment the cars come with and not their capabilities

LT1 and GT both on all season tires

SS and GT PP1 upgraded performance equipment (advantage SS)

1LE and GTpp2 even more upgrades (advantage 1LE)

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by Lafourche1

I did track my SS with the run flats. I tracked it with Continental ExtremeContact DW and with Michelin PS4S tires. I'll offer my impressions in the FWIW category.

The Goodyears were very stable. They had the highest cornering limits of the three. They held up to roughly 12 track sessions. They were done in by track debris (flat).

The Continentals were by far and away the most predictable. They had lower limits but they gave way in such a gradual manner that they were easy to balance at the limits. They talked to you, too as they approached their limits. With a 360 treadwear, they were harder tires, but held up well. Great tires to learn the car and for starting out in HPDE events.

The PS4S were the quietest of the tires. They were the poorest performers, too. They heat cycled out on Day 2 of a 2 day HPDE event. They were just not greasy, but actually a little iffy in the way that they would just let go. I am not a drifter, but I did gain some experience that I wasn't looking for.

Thanks for the comparisons, but not the runflat to G3 comparison in question.

[BlaqWhole]

As far as Dodge, I think they've been on to something that only they can get away with. Just throw more power at it and more people will buy it. Ford can't get away with it and neither can GM. And how far can Dodge go? Well we know they can go up to 1000 HP because Hellephant. If they did, then yes I would buy one. Even if nothing else changes. Give me the Hellephant, give it some emblems and something exclusive (spoiler, headlights, hood) to make it stand out, starting price of $90K to $95K, and I know one person who will definitely buy it.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Lafourche1

I did track my SS with the run flats. I tracked it with Continental ExtremeContact DW and with Michelin PS4S tires. I'll offer my impressions in the FWIW category.

The Goodyears were very stable. They had the highest cornering limits of the three. They held up to roughly 12 track sessions. They were done in by track debris (flat).

The Continentals were by far and away the most predictable. They had lower limits but they gave way in such a gradual manner that they were easy to balance at the limits. They talked to you, too as they approached their limits. With a 360 treadwear, they were harder tires, but held up well. Great tires to learn the car and for starting out in HPDE events.

The PS4S were the quietest of the tires. They were the poorest performers, too. They heat cycled out on Day 2 of a 2 day HPDE event. They were just not greasy, but actually a little iffy in the way that they would just let go. I am not a drifter, but I did gain some experience that I wasn't looking for.

thanks for the excellent real world post.

[LESS1]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

As far as Dodge, I think they've been on to something that only they can get away with. Just throw more power at it and more people will buy it. Ford can't get away with it and neither can GM. And how far can Dodge go? Well we know they can go up to 1000 HP because Hellephant. If they did, then yes I would buy one. Even if nothing else changes. Give me the Hellephant, give it some emblems and something exclusive (spoiler, headlights, hood) to make it stand out, starting price of $90K to $95K, and I know one person who will definitely buy it.

Given the current state of vehicle development and chassis sophistication at Dodge, this would be one sketchy ride, similar to the situation referenced below.

Originally Posted by GuywithL86

Which is why the SS is the most boring 450hp car ever and the mustang is a riot.

For a race track I’ll take an underpowered car
For the street, give me an overpowered car

Nothing more fun than a car that makes more power than it should.

[Lafourche1]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Thanks for the comparisons, but not the runflat to G3 comparison in question.

Are you referring to the GYSC3s? If so, I can speak to those, too. They hold up very well under track conditions. While not SC3Rs, they do provide a great deal of grip. They have heat cycled out in some 12 track sessions, to date. They are progressive in how they communicate.

They have far higher limits than the three other tires that I commented on.

[NW-99SS]

Lol - Jim with the excellent choir comment!

Hellephant is a 426 no? Definitely not street emissions certified.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Lafourche1

Are you referring to the GYSC3s? If so, I can speak to those, too. They hold up very well under track conditions. While not SC3Rs, they do provide a great deal of grip. They have heat cycled out in some 12 track sessions, to date. They are progressive in how they communicate.

They have far higher limits than the three other tires that I commented on.

Great info!