[JK001]

@trackclub @jamesnobrakes. Good comments guys. Indeed we did some armchair discussions...I think key takeaway here is (which was has been known since the 1lLE came out...) its impossible to match the 1LE for the price

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

The M2C is a serious driver's car. It benefits from the massive area below the curve with it's flat torque curve, which is significantly better than ours. It's putting a little more power to the rear wheels, but the chassis isn't quite as good as the Camaro. That doesn't matter as much for autocross, where nimbleness, how fast the turn-in is and acceleration count the most. When the Camaro is going for those high speed turns, few cars can keep up and it just keeps putting distance on them that they can't make up in the straights, but again, autocross is a totally different monster. It's about properly and very quickly loading and unloading the chassis to get the fastest time around a short course. Cars like the miata absolutely destroy it. I considered the M2, but the SS1LE was a better driver's car with better handling. The M2C addressed many of the M2s shortcomings, but the 1LE still has the edge on big courses. It's got the rubber/tires to put the power down and the chassis tuning to take maximum advantage of it...on a big course. I autocross my 1LE and it doesn't suck, but a quick shifting DCT car like the M2C would be better. The 1LE really starts picking up speed when we have a bigger track. Last time we put an oval in the course and were able to get up to some pretty fast speeds, my standings were much better with the bigger course, compared to when we do a small one.

Well said. I think autox vs track are sufficiently different disciplines, which quickly lead any comparos into apples to oranges territory, when mixing the two. SS 1LE aside, not sure how a C7 ZR1 would do against a Miata
Cheers!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by JK001

@trackclub @jamesnobrakes. Good comments guys. Indeed we did some armchair discussions...I think key takeaway here is (which was has been known since the 1lLE came out...) its impossible to match the 1LE for the price

This is without a question IMO. And the same applies to ZL1 and ZLE btw, when one considers an M2 C starts at about what a ZL1 costs and M2 CS is about 15-20k *more* than a ZLE.
Heck, a "new and mproved" Supra costs almost on par with a ZL1 which is one heck of a joke value wise (and that's probably why they sell very few of them).
Cheers!

[Bosse'sBoss]

From the mentioned articles, the 6th gen Camaro has been able to compete at the same performance level and even beat BMW Ms:


Camaro SS1LE VS BMW M2 Competition

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...camaro-ss-1le/


'16 Camaro SS VS BMW M3

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...let-camaro-ss/


Even the '11 Mustang GT 5.0 performed at the same level of the '11 BMW M3 (V8)
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/...m3-comparison/


On my book for the $ the best performer is the 6th gen Camaro

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

From the mentioned articles, the 6th gen Camaro has been able to compete at the same performance level and even beat BMW Ms:
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...camaro-ss-1le/


https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...let-camaro-ss/


Even the '11 Mustang GT 5.0 performed at the same level of the '11 BMW M3 (V8)
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/...m3-comparison/


On my book for the $ the best performer is the 6th gen Camaro

Stangs are capable cars for sure, but the issue has been Ford's marketing, pushing buyers into GT350s for track duty - for SS 1LE performance at ZLE price - because of Shelby badges.

[Bosse'sBoss]

The Camaro ZL1 1LE & ZL1 destroy the BMW M2 CS
https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/8mf4z6cb758o
https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/96p2cma7r534


Even the SS1LE is able to beat the M2 CS at the track:
https://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/2lp63kl0thrd

[Bosse'sBoss]

FOMOCO has always been afraid to allow their Shelby GT350, GT350R and probably now their Mach l to be tested against the Camaro SS1LE, never allowing the car magazines to compare them.
The Mustang old chassis is not able to match the 6th gen Camaro's oustanding "Alpha" chassis, FORD always have to get the cup tires to be able to keep up with the Camaros just riding on street summer tires.

[Eldi Z]

Taking the discussion a bit off the track comparisons, for those of us using our SS 1LEs mainly as their daily service vehicle and just wishing to enjoy the performance / handling on the public roads.
What would be your take under these "daily" circumstances, when comparing to the M2/M2C ?

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

FOMOCO has always been afraid to allow their Shelby GT350, GT350R and probably now their Mach l to be tested against the Camaro SS1LE, never allowing the car magazines to compare them.
The Mustang old chassis is not able to match the 6th gen Camaro's oustanding "Alpha" chassis, FORD always have to get the cup tires to be able to keep up with the Camaros just riding on street summer tires.

To be fair, those "street summer tires" are amazing both from a track performance lap time and cost pov. A complete sandbag given their 220 tread rating (as compared to other brands). Cheers!

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Eldi Z

Taking the discussion a bit off the track comparisons, for those of us using our SS 1LEs mainly as their daily service vehicle and just wishing to enjoy the performance / handling on the public roads.
What would be your take under these "daily" circumstances, when comparing to the M2/M2C ?

All these cars will provide a true sports car street experience imo. So, i would get what i liked the best styling wise. Personally I would likely head straight for a Caddy Blackwing twins given 4 door benefit. Cheers!

[Aragorn]

Originally Posted by Eldi Z

Taking the discussion a bit off the track comparisons, for those of us using our SS 1LEs mainly as their daily service vehicle and just wishing to enjoy the performance / handling on the public roads.
What would be your take under these "daily" circumstances, when comparing to the M2/M2C ?

For some the Camaro has visibility issues. Also the suspension is a little firm. Lastly the inability to recline the seats farther back was a pain for, no pun intended. I have since fixed that. Currently mine is weekend only and it would be a tough decision. I think the Camaro is a better looking car….

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Firstly, i KNOW, that Cup2 doesn't have 1.5 sec over a Pilot Sport over a 1min lap.

I didn't say it did. I said a warmed up Goodyear SC3 has 1.5s over a PS.

maybe not the same day, or the same driver, but 1LE has recorded a faster lap.

If you don't even control for the driver and conditions, then any comparisons are meaningless.

To me (and many of us here, obviously), an SS 1LE is the best track performer for the money.

I don't think anybody would say otherwise. Certainly not me. I own a 1LE, after all!

[FarmerFran]

Originally Posted by NYblack1le

M2 is cool as hell but for 85k I’ll wait and order a c8 z06.

Yeah because you will easily get a C8 Z06 for 85K

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Msquared

I didn't say it did. I said a warmed up Goodyear SC3 has 1.5s over a PS.



If you don't even control for the driver and conditions, then any comparisons are meaningless.



I don't think anybody would say otherwise. Certainly not me. I own a 1LE, after all!

1) Ok, confused, as you were replying to a comment that referenced PSS vs Cup2, but anyway, we agree a Cup2 doesn't have 1.5 seconds over PSS over 1 min lap, ergo neither does G3 as its performance is virtually the same as Cup2. Anyhow, no point splitting hairs: agree PSS is not as fast a tire, albeit not a slouch either.

2) Not exactly, as those are the fastest official laps recorded.
Also, Randy Pobst drove both, but i cannot find an official vid of the 1LE, so instead let's use official Laguna laps: officially same driver, 1LE beats both M2 (by a lot) and also M4. And...it loses to M4 GTS by a spitting distance.

3) Agree and ditto! Cheers!