[THASTIG]

Have recently ran a couple of cars at the drag strip that i wasn't expecting to beat or be close to. Im up in Reno NV so our elevation is pretty high and we have terrible DA so some of these times might look not normal to you and my car is also a M6. Mods are long tubes, 103TB, MSD intake manifold, K&N intake and E85. Lots of wheel spin on regular street tires but i just recently put on some drag radials and she hooks way better on the street, havent had a chance to get to the track yet on them.

Up here at our local drag strip i ran a 12.7 @114 against a stock hellcat who ran a 12.8 @113 which was best times for both of us all day. Elevation 4900' DA 5300ish

SAC drag strip i did an 11.7 @123 which was my best time. I was right there all day with a Stock M6 ZL1 who ended up squeaking me out with a 11.69@ 125. Elevation near zero DA 800'
Also at SAC i was consistently faster than a GTR what was running also running low 12s high 11s.

Pretty cool to see with some minor mods and driving experience i can keep up with cars $20k more, these new gen camaros are pretty impressive. Also have vids for proof if anyone wants

[BlaqWhole]

A trap speed of 113 for a stock HC seems way off. Are you sure it was a Hellcat and not a SRT8? I can understand the ET if it was on stock street tires. But the trap speed should be much higher.

These times and trap speeds do seem to be a bit off. DA affects forced induction vehicles more than NA vehicles tho. And the M6 ZL1s do have the bog programmed into them from the factory. So 11.6 at 125 is impressive if he was able to manage that.

What year GTR was it? Because that also seems way off. If it was an older one then I can see it. But a newer one should be much faster than that. Were these all beginner drivers? It just seems that these times are way off.

For reference, out here in NJ during the Summer stock HCs on DRs are in the low 11s and high 10s and well into the 120s. GTRs (newer ones) are also low 11s to high 10s. Terrible DA will throw everything way off so I'm not sure how much it can be trusted. But I'll say again, those times and trap speeds seem to be way off.

Your ET and speed seem to be spot on for a modded and E85 tuned SS with a good driver. GTs and SSs with bolt ons, E85, and a good driver typically can hang with a stock ZL1 or stock HC especially if the HC is on stock tires. HCs really do need DRs to run good. If it was a M6 HC then even more so. I firmly believe the auto trans GTs and SS can beat bone stock street tire M6 HCs. But I do not see how the trap speed was 114.

I'd say post the slips so we can see what went wrong on those runs.

[THASTIG]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

A trap speed of 113 for a stock HC seems way off. Are you sure it was a Hellcat and not a SRT8? I can understand the ET if it was on stock street tires. But the trap speed should be much higher.

These times and trap speeds do seem to be a bit off. DA affects forced induction vehicles more than NA vehicles tho. And the M6 ZL1s do have the bog programmed into them from the factory. So 11.6 at 125 is impressive if he was able to manage that.

What year GTR was it? Because that also seems way off. If it was an older one then I can see it. But a newer one should be much faster than that. Were these all beginner drivers? It just seems that these times are way off.

For reference, out here in NJ during the Summer stock HCs on DRs are in the low 11s and high 10s and well into the 120s. GTRs (newer ones) are also low 11s to high 10s. Terrible DA will throw everything way off so I'm not sure how much it can be trusted. But I'll say again, those times and trap speeds seem to be way off.

Your ET and speed seem to be spot on for a modded and E85 tuned SS with a good driver. GTs and SSs with bolt ons, E85, and a good driver typically can hang with a stock ZL1 or stock HC especially if the HC is on stock tires. HCs really do need DRs to run good. If it was a M6 HC then even more so. I firmly believe the auto trans GTs and SS can beat bone stock street tire M6 HCs. But I do not see how the trap speed was 114.

I'd say post the slips so we can see what went wrong on those runs.

yeah it was forsure a hellcat ill see if i can find the slip for that. As for the sac ones i only have mine because they cut them in half for whatever reason, i think it was because it was a private track rental im not sure. I know the guy with the ZL1 so i can probably get you that one too. That GTR was an older one i think it was an 09 and he just had an exhaust on it from what i understand

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

A trap speed of 113 for a stock HC seems way off. Are you sure it was a Hellcat and not a SRT8? I can understand the ET if it was on stock street tires. But the trap speed should be much higher.

These times and trap speeds do seem to be a bit off.

Read his post again, he was at 4900' ASL. Almost a mile up, and that has a BIG effect on performance. I have raced in the past at a mile-high dragstrip, and times/speeds up there are way off what the same machine runs at low altitude. I agree with OP that it was a Hellcat, because 113 mph is about what a 392 runs at very low altitude, therefore, absolutely no way would a 392 run that fast at 4900' ASL.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Read his post again, he was at 4900' ASL. Almost a mile up, and that has a BIG effect on performance. I have raced in the past at a mile-high dragstrip, and times/speeds up there are way off what the same machine runs at low altitude. I agree with OP that it was a Hellcat, because 113 mph is about what a 392 runs at very low altitude, therefore, absolutely no way would a 392 run that fast at 4900' ASL.

Well that is why I still think it is a bit off. I did look at the elevation BTW. I read the post a few times before I commented. What struck me as weird is that the Hellcat ran a ET and trap speed identical to his SS which shouldn't happen if both cars are at the same track and on the same day. Even if the ET is similar the HC should still have a higher trap than a SS. Your statements in bold...a SS would run similar to a 392 or SRT8. So it stands to reason that if a SRT8/392 is not running a 113 in those conditions then a SS won't either.

Again, the times and speeds seem off for that elevation. His modded SS up against a HC in a roll race should not stand a chance trans for trans. Which is why the HC should have a higher trap speed. I'm not putting the SS down (if that's what you're thinking). I mean, not for nothing but I don't think we need to discuss that the HC and ZL1 both are faster cars than the SS even with boltons. So if he is running identical times and trap speeds in that kind of DA with just boltons then there has to be an explanation. Perhaps the slips will tell the full story. Maybe it was a combination of DA and those drivers not being too good. Either way it is just odd to see a HC trap 113 alongside a SS.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Well that is why I still think it is a bit off. I did look at the elevation BTW. I read the post a few times before I commented. What struck me as weird is that the Hellcat ran a ET and trap speed identical to his SS which shouldn't happen if both cars are at the same track and on the same day. Even if the ET is similar the HC should still have a higher trap than a SS. Your statements in bold...a SS would run similar to a 392 or SRT8. So it stands to reason that if a SRT8/392 is not running a 113 in those conditions then a SS won't either.

Again, the times and speeds seem off for that elevation. His modded SS up against a HC in a roll race should not stand a chance trans for trans. Which is why the HC should have a higher trap speed. I'm not putting the SS down (if that's what you're thinking). I mean, not for nothing but I don't think we need to discuss that the HC and ZL1 both are faster cars than the SS even with boltons. So if he is running identical times and trap speeds in that kind of DA with just boltons then there has to be an explanation. Perhaps the slips will tell the full story. Maybe it was a combination of DA and those drivers not being too good. Either way it is just odd to see a HC trap 113 alongside a SS.

Did you not see that the OP went 114 at the 4900' ASL track and then 123 at low altitude? Shows the effect of altitude changes. Since Hellcats on street tires actually run 120~122 at my low altitude track, it should be obvious why that stock Hellcat only got 113 up there at 4900' ASL. As far as the OP's bolt-on SS running similar mph on the dragstrip to the stock Hellcat in the other lane, that is absolutely possible. My own SS for example, with just a few bolt-ons, ran 11.5@122 on street tires at low altitude. Same mph on street tires as Hellcats are running here on street tires.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Did you not see that the OP went 114 at the 4900' ASL track and then 123 at low altitude? Shows the effect of altitude changes. Since Hellcats on street tires actually run 120~122 at my low altitude track, it should be obvious why that stock Hellcat only got 113 up there at 4900' ASL. As far as the OP's bolt-on SS running similar mph on the dragstrip to the stock Hellcat in the other lane, that is absolutely possible. My own SS for example, with just a few bolt-ons, ran 11.5@122 on street tires at low altitude. Same mph on street tires as Hellcats are running here on street tires.

Yea, sure bro.

Look dude, I don't know how many times I have to repeat it...but it seems like you're taking this a bit personal because you have a SS. So I will repeat again and break it down a bit more. Same day, same track, same conditions, trans to trans, and similar driver ability, I have never seen a bolton SS keep up with a Hellcat. Not with trap speed. Even a ZL1 won't have the same trap speed as a stock HC. If DA is going to affect the HC's times and speeds then it will affect the SS too. And I'm not seeing it affect them to where a SS is keeping up unless those other cars had less experienced drivers. And again, even then the speed should not be the same as a SS. Or do you think the extra 200+ HP tp the wheels just vanish into thin air? I would need to see the slips.

Now if for some reason you think a bolt on SS can trap the same as a Hellcat then go and roll race one and let me know how that works out for you. It ain't a pissing contest. I simply do not see it as being possible unless the SS driver has much better skill and the HC and ZL1 drivers are less skilled. Which is more than likely the case as you will typically see higher skilled drivers in lower powered cars on average I would think. Now if for some reason you still don't understand or you do think a bolt on SS can match a HC then I think this conversation is over.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Yea, sure bro.

Look dude, I don't know how many times I have to repeat it...but it seems like you're taking this a bit personal because you have a SS. So I will repeat again and break it down a bit more. Same day, same track, same conditions, trans to trans, and similar driver ability, I have never seen a bolton SS keep up with a Hellcat. Not with trap speed. Even a ZL1 won't have the same trap speed as a stock HC. If DA is going to affect the HC's times and speeds then it will affect the SS too. And I'm not seeing it affect them to where a SS is keeping up unless those other cars had less experienced drivers. And again, even then the speed should not be the same as a SS. Or do you think the extra 200+ HP tp the wheels just vanish into thin air? I would need to see the slips.

Now if for some reason you think a bolt on SS can trap the same as a Hellcat then go and roll race one and let me know how that works out for you. It ain't a pissing contest. I simply do not see it as being possible unless the SS driver has much better skill and the HC and ZL1 drivers are less skilled. Which is more than likely the case as you will typically see higher skilled drivers in lower powered cars on average I would think. Now if for some reason you still don't understand or you do think a bolt on SS can match a HC then I think this conversation is over.

Wow, you really are sticking your head in the sand. OP and myself have given data from legitimate dragstrips. OP even had SAME run data for the 2 cars. Remember, he said stock Hellcat, which means street tires not drag tires. ETs for Hellcats on street tires as we know suck, and even their trap speeds are lower than those using drag tires. Street-tire Hellcats here at low altitude typically run 120~122, it's the modded Hellcats on drag tires where you can see 124~125, or sometimes more. My own partial-bolt-on SS went 122 on street tires and 125 on drag tires btw. Consider the fact that the Hellcat weighs HUNDREDS of pounds more than a bolt-on SS, and that street tires hinder even the lower-hp SS let alone the 707 hp Hellcat, and these are a couple of factors in why the OP in a bolt-on SS on street tires beat the Hellcat on street tires in the standing 1/4 mile.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Wow, you really are sticking your head in the sand. OP and myself have given data from legitimate dragstrips. OP even had SAME run data for the 2 cars. Remember, he said stock Hellcat, which means street tires not drag tires. ETs for Hellcats on street tires as we know suck, and even their trap speeds are lower than those using drag tires. Street-tire Hellcats here at low altitude typically run 120~122, it's the modded Hellcats on drag tires where you can see 124~125, or sometimes more. My own partial-bolt-on SS went 122 on street tires and 125 on drag tires btw. Consider the fact that the Hellcat weighs HUNDREDS of pounds more than a bolt-on SS, and that street tires hinder even the lower-hp SS let alone the 707 hp Hellcat, and these are a couple of factors in why the OP in a bolt-on SS on street tires beat the Hellcat on street tires in the standing 1/4 mile.

Ok so do YOU have a time slip from that night? No? Oh ok. Then your input means nothing. I made simple statements and said I would like to see a time slip because these times seem off. Under no circumstances should a Hellcat trap the same as a bolt on SS even if they run the same ET. Sure, the Hellcat is several hundred pounds heavier. No duh. Like, I never realized it after several years that they have been out and from owning one since 2017. But guess what pal, they also typically put down well over 600 RWHP bone stock with some having been as high as 680+. So making approx 200+ more than a bolt on SS to the wheels kinda makes up for the extra weight and then some. So bone stock, it should not be trapping the same as a SS unless either it got terribly heat soaked or the driver didn't know what the Hell he was doing or something is wrong with that particular HC. It's not a $70+ car with over 700 HP just to keep up with the SS bro. The SRT8 will keep up with a SS mod for mod and trans for trans. So there is no way in Hell that adding an extra 400 HP is going to make it slower. Do you understand or not?

The only way to know for sure what went wrong is to see a slip. And yes, for a HC to trap the same as a bolt on SS same track same day same temps and auto to auto, something went wrong. Don't go thinking your SS will match a HC in trap speed or top end because there are plenty of ways you can find out just how wrong you are.

[6spdhyperblue]

Lol

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Ok so do YOU have a time slip from that night? No? Oh ok. Then your input means nothing. I made simple statements and said I would like to see a time slip because these times seem off. Under no circumstances should a Hellcat trap the same as a bolt on SS even if they run the same ET. Sure, the Hellcat is several hundred pounds heavier. No duh. Like, I never realized it after several years that they have been out and from owning one since 2017. But guess what pal, they also typically put down well over 600 RWHP bone stock with some having been as high as 680+. So making approx 200+ more than a bolt on SS to the wheels kinda makes up for the extra weight and then some. So bone stock, it should not be trapping the same as a SS unless either it got terribly heat soaked or the driver didn't know what the Hell he was doing or something is wrong with that particular HC. It's not a $70+ car with over 700 HP just to keep up with the SS bro. The SRT8 will keep up with a SS mod for mod and trans for trans. So there is no way in Hell that adding an extra 400 HP is going to make it slower. Do you understand or not?

The only way to know for sure what went wrong is to see a slip. And yes, for a HC to trap the same as a bolt on SS same track same day same temps and auto to auto, something went wrong. Don't go thinking your SS will match a HC in trap speed or top end because there are plenty of ways you can find out just how wrong you are.

Of course I have a slip for my SS running 122 trap speed on street tires. Below will be a pic of drag tires and street tires, timeslips for my partial bolt on SS. Since guys will wonder, the other car on the street tire run was a Coyote Mustang A6 with front skinnies and R888Rs on the back. Other car on drag tire run was a Veloster (I think it was anyway). Like I said before, 122 was like the Hellcats have been running here on street tires, remember that I certainly did not say I had raced a stock Hellcat on this pass.

As far as the bolt-on SS only matching the stock Hellcat in 1/4 mile trap speed if something went wrong with the Hellcat, that would mean ALL of the Hellcats on street tires, and I've seen PLENTY of them on the dragstrip, have something wrong. You are either guessing wrong on the high side for stock Hellcat trap speed, guessing wrong on the low side for bolt on SS trap speed in the 1/4 mile, or some combination of that. There are guys with bolt on SS that have done 127 or more trap speed, they really are faster on the dragstrip than you want to admit.

[THASTIG]

Its pretty normal for hellcats to trap mid to low teens up here. look at you guys getting all zesty i love it, ill see if i can find the slip for yall

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Of course I have a slip for my SS running 122 trap speed on street tires. Below will be a pic of drag tires and street tires, timeslips for my partial bolt on SS. Since guys will wonder, the other car on the street tire run was a Coyote Mustang A6 with front skinnies and R888Rs on the back. Other car on drag tire run was a Veloster (I think it was anyway). Like I said before, 122 was like the Hellcats have been running here on street tires, remember that I certainly did not say I had raced a stock Hellcat on this pass.

As far as the bolt-on SS only matching the stock Hellcat in 1/4 mile trap speed if something went wrong with the Hellcat, that would mean ALL of the Hellcats on street tires, and I've seen PLENTY of them on the dragstrip, have something wrong. You are either guessing wrong on the high side for stock Hellcat trap speed, guessing wrong on the low side for bolt on SS trap speed in the 1/4 mile, or some combination of that. There are guys with bolt on SS that have done 127 or more trap speed, they really are faster on the dragstrip than you want to admit.

I'm talking about a slip for the night OP was there. That is what I asked if you had. A slip from that night with those Hellcats running.

And I still don't see a stock HC trapping the same as a bolt on SS on the same track same day. The only thing I can say is that it is a combination of the stock tires, horrible DA, and inexperienced drivers. Depending on the miles on those tires they could probably be pretty much useless. And most HC owners that I know of who plan to track their car will swap out the tires as a first mod. Because running a high 12 at 113 in a $70K car with over 600 RWHP stock is depressing. Shit, my 5th Gen FBO SS with M6 trans was running 12.8-13 flat at 112-113 consistently.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by THASTIG

Its pretty normal for hellcats to trap mid to low teens up here. look at you guys getting all zesty i love it, ill see if i can find the slip for yall

Remind me to never bring my HC to that track.