Camaro ZL1 video clips of engine / exhaust revving - from Camaro5Fest II

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by radz28

I don't know... I believe ZL1 will come with better tires than that of the base 'Vette, and with MR and the new '12 suspension tweaks, I think ZL1 will probably do very favorably against a base 'Vette; dare I say it may give a "base" Z06 owner something to seriously think about.

Yeah - and many of those cars don't come with the rest of the powertrain and chassis upgrades ZL1 will come with standard. I challenge anyone to come up with a reasonable build and compare the value and performance to ZL1 once they are released into the wild.

I do agree, though, that there are going to be some tuning that some people will want to do in the PCM. There goes the warranty on many things-powertrain related, but that's a risk many are willing to take.

KUDOS!!! ^^^Post of the Day.^^^

The more posts I read from you, the more I either think you like stirring the pot, are a troll, or are just plain unhappy with CAMARO. Either way, if you hate so much of CAMARO, perhaps you would consider spending time in a community that shares your views, because, honestly, all your negativity is starting to wear on me. My enthusiasm for everything could be seen as blind faith, however, it is optimism and a feeling from my gutt that we're getting the best possible car for the best possible price, and then some (and that goes for the ENTIRE CAMARO line-up). It's one thing to express opinions and thoughts, but when it seems like most of the posts I read (and I don't see all of them) are nothing but dark and full of a bunch of put-downs, a flag raises for me. Either post something constructive, or don't post. This last quoted post really puts you in a different light for me.

Why is it when someone on this board doesn't agree 100% with all the blind faith in GM they're put in a dark light? I'm not posting anything that anyone else cannot find on this board regarding less than stellar parts on the Camaro. Also, if I don't agree with rediculous comments that aftermarket parts (Phadt, Pedders, Hotchkis, Comp, Crane, RAM, Brembo, AEM, Holley, et al) that are used on pro. racecars do not adhere to GM standards I'm the bad guy, especially when these are the leaders in the parts business and those same parts are some of the OEM stock parts found in the Camaro. Since when is intelligence a BAD thing?

So, don't categorize me as the negative person here.
My points are just as valid as your's or anyone elses who has spent their hard earned dollars on something that doesn't perform as earlier versions. In the past I've had an Iroc Z28, and I could drive the s**t out of that car without any concerns. Read the threads on here, I'm not the one complaining about stuff that broke and crying about it when I tried to launch at 2k/rpm and stuff fell apart or bashing GM after they wouldn't honour the warranty when I broke something after getting an extra 50 horse. I'm spending my $$$ on the top notch, best possible parts on the market making the vehicle into something I feel is what I originally expected. So, when someone is telling me I'm wasting my cash cause' GM is the world leader in "making" parts I take offense to it and so would anyone else.
When my clutch goes I spend $$$ to get a new one. When I felt the vehicle wasn't planted properly on the ground I bought the parts to make it handle the way it should, when I felt there wasn't enough power for a 4k/lb vehicle I spent the $$$ to put a blower (et al), and when it didn't sound the way I wanted with the big garbage cans on it, I ripped them out and put "real" mufflers on it.
I like many people on C5 love my SS (waited 3yrs. for it to come to market), and I can prove it by showing you the reciepts for all the parts I've installed to make it a much better more enjoyable and reliable "muscle car" which it should have been from the get go (even if it cost more).
So, don't be pissed at me because I'm honest about the product, and not hiding about how I feel about it.
It's more than obvious to anyone with half a brain SS mod'ers (every single SS owner I know is mod'ing to improve something or another or fix something that broke) won't be able to compete with the cost / benefit of the ZL1 because we already put out the huge outlay to purchase the car, mod it, and get zero credit for the garbage parts we had to replace. But, I'm sure these mod'd SS's will surely give the ZL1 a run for the money and then some with better reliability and much more power.
Not being negative, just saying it as it is bro'.
If I'm wrong then I'll eat my words, if I'm not, I'm sure you won't be sending me a PM to say I was right.
And, I'm not talking about articles in car magazines, I'm talking about the real feedback from people who purchase and drive these vehicles daily.

[Milk 1027]

I could go back and quote all your posts just in the last week. If that's not negativity, I don't what it is.

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

Are you referring to parts that failed under use for which they were designed? And, are you referring to parts on SS's or on the ZL1?



I don't think that anyone stated that "mod'd SS guys" are crazy or that that all after market parts are low standard parts.



The ZL1 will use parts that are designed for its application.

I'm not sure that you understand the design, verification, and validation processes.

Each product generally has the following requirements documents: a use case document and a marketing requirements specification which are at the top level of the document tree, and below them is a product requirements specification, and below it are a system hardware requirements specification and a system software requirements specification, and below them, respectively, are individual hardware module requirements specifications and individual software module requirements specifications. Generally, each of the individual module specifications has associated detailed design documents describing how the particular design is implemented.

All of the requirements must have traceability (often companies will use IBM's Rational RUP (Rational Unified Process) tool suite which includes RequisitePro to manage their requirements), that is, there can be no childless requirements and no orphaned requirements from the marketing specification down to the individual hardware and software requirement docuements.

A typical marketing specification requirement might be something such as "The vehicle shall be capable of transversing a quarter mile from a standing start in less than 12.00 seconds." Another typical marketing specification requirement might be "The vehicle shall have a curb weight of less than 4,100 pounds." A typical product specification requirement might be something such as "The vehicle engine shall be capable of outputting at least 550 pound-feet of torque." A typical engine hardware specification requirement might be something such as "The engine shall be capable of sustaining at least 6500 revolutions per minute for at least 10 consecutive hours with less than a 1 percent drop in horsepower output." A typical engine software specification requirement might be something such as "The engine control module software shall be capable of sampling the air mass flow rate from the mass air flow sensor at a rate of at least 100 times per second." Etc., etc., etc.

Reviews are held for each document and the requirements are reviewed before the document is released and the design is implemented.

The design is often performed using an iterative development process, where the highest risk items are addressed first, and where each design requirement must be verified that it has been satisfied. Design reviews are held for each for each portion of the design to ensure that the design implementation meets its requirements. Anytime that a requirement or design is changed all associated requirements to which it traces must be examined and, if necessary, updated accordingly, and verified again. This iterative development process continues until the design is complete.

When the design is complete and all of the product requirements have successfully passed their verification test protocols, validation is performed. Validation consists of a series of protocols which the product is put through that provide a high degree of assurance that the product will perform as a unit as it is intended to perform when it is put into use by the end user. If any test fails, the defect is noted and corrected and the tests are run again, and the process continues until all tests pass.

After a product has successfully completed verification and validation, it is then ready for product release and production.

The ZL1 will have gone through a similar process with a team of marketing people, design and development engineers, quality assurance engineers, and verification and validation testers before it will be ready for production. That is one of the reasons why it will come with a warranty.

The ZL1 will be designed to work as a unit, and the parts that will be used will have been tested, verified and validated that they work together on the vehicle as intended. That is a different process from taking after market parts from different vendors and putting them on a vehicle. That's not so say that one can't build a reliable performance vehicle with after market parts, it's just that it can be expensive and one must be careful and be aware that making a change in one area may affect other areas, and that it one hasn't done adequate research, negative consequences may occur.

I know enough to know that I don't know everything that I need to know to build a reliable high performance vehicle equal to the ZL1's performance that won't cost significantly more than the ZL1 will cost.

Sounds like you may be a PM, Engineer or Architect.
I understand every word your saying I myself know a bit about Proj. / Product Mgt., QA controls, and developing Use Cases for QAT, et al, and controls to manage Time, Cost, Quality and Scope and some of the tools like Rational, et al.
I'm also aware of what happens when the scope cannot be met 100% based on the constraints of TCQ, and I'm surely intelligent enough to know that I don't have the facilites, tooling, processes and procedures or the labour resources to design, build, test and bring to market a ZL1 like vehicle.
But, I do know as a consumer when I purchase something and it doesn't perform as expected what I need to do. I can either return it an buy a competitive product, make changes to it at my own risk or just live with it and bitch and complain (which is not me).
My point on this thread is simply when corners have to be cut to meet a specific goal (in this case from what I've read compete with the GT500 and match the price tag), those that expected more (based on all the marketing hype) will do what's necessary to get what they originally wanted. That's it, that's all, we see and read it everyday from SS owners like myself.
Believe me if I put a list together of what I'd like to see in the ZL1 for $50k, I'd be laughed at.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

Why is it when someone on this board doesn't agree 100% with all the blind faith in GM they're put in a dark light? I'm not posting anything that anyone else cannot find on this board regarding less than stellar parts on the Camaro. Also, if I don't agree with rediculous comments that aftermarket parts (Phadt, Pedders, Hotchkis, Comp, Crane, RAM, Brembo, AEM, Holley, et al) that are used on pro. racecars do not adhere to GM standards I'm the bad guy, especially when these are the leaders in the parts business and those same parts are some of the OEM stock parts found in the Camaro. Since when is intelligence a BAD thing?

So, don't categorize me as the negative person here.
My points are just as valid as your's or anyone elses who has spent their hard earned dollars on something that doesn't perform as earlier versions. In the past I've had an Iroc Z28, and I could drive the s**t out of that car without any concerns. Read the threads on here, I'm not the one complaining about stuff that broke and crying about it when I tried to launch at 2k/rpm and stuff fell apart or bashing GM after they wouldn't honour the warranty when I broke something after getting an extra 50 horse. I'm spending my $$$ on the top notch, best possible parts on the market making the vehicle into something I feel is what I originally expected. So, when someone is telling me I'm wasting my cash cause' GM is the world leader in "making" parts I take offense to it and so would anyone else.
When my clutch goes I spend $$$ to get a new one. When I felt the vehicle wasn't planted properly on the ground I bought the parts to make it handle the way it should, when I felt there wasn't enough power for a 4k/lb vehicle I spent the $$$ to put a blower (et al), and when it didn't sound the way I wanted with the big garbage cans on it, I ripped them out and put "real" mufflers on it.
I like many people on C5 love my SS (waited 3yrs. for it to come to market), and I can prove it by showing you the reciepts for all the parts I've installed to make it a much better more enjoyable and reliable "muscle car" which it should have been from the get go (even if it cost more).
So, don't be pissed at me because I'm honest about the product, and not hiding about how I feel about it.
It's more than obvious to anyone with half a brain SS mod'ers (every single SS owner I know is mod'ing to improve something or another or fix something that broke) won't be able to compete with the cost / benefit of the ZL1 because we already put out the huge outlay to purchase the car, mod it, and get zero credit for the garbage parts we had to replace. But, I'm sure these mod'd SS's will surely give the ZL1 a run for the money and then some with better reliability and much more power.
Not being negative, just saying it as it is bro'.
If I'm wrong then I'll eat my words, if I'm not, I'm sure you won't be sending me a PM to say I was right.
And, I'm not talking about articles in car magazines, I'm talking about the real feedback from people who purchase and drive these vehicles daily.

When just about all the posts I read from you (and I admitted I probably haven't read all of them) do nothing but harp on how crappy every part of CAMARO is, how do you think you'll be characterized? If it walks like a duck...
I, like many others, don't have blind faith, however, I think most of us try to see the bigger picture. I'm sorry I don't have the intellegence you do, but GM doesn't make cars for fanatics (which I believe you are - I am, too), they make cars to sell to as many people as they can. They are not going to stuff solid subframe bushings in the rear cradle because they don't want an average consumer who like the looks more than appreciates the performance of CAMARO to go across the street to Brand X for a more comfortable compliant ride. Many of the attribues of the aftermarket parts those companies sell affect NVH, and most buyers don't like that racket. We can appreciate it's benefits, but we're not the majority.

And no - if I'm wrong, I'll post it for everyone. I'm a big boy and admit my mistakes. You're the one coming into these topics smearing whatever you want to call if everywhere. I'm not suggesting an apology would be necessary, however, I just get a feeling of a lack of respect. That could just be the whole internet-thing, though.

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

I could go back and quote all your posts just in the last week. If that's not negativity, I don't what it is.

Bro', it's only negative to you because I don't agree with your point of view. The difference here is I'm not saying your negative to my view on things, you're entitled to believe what you will and to have your own opinion. I respect that but doesn't mean I have to agree with you or slam you because of it. It's called debate or discussion.
Like you and everyone else I think the ZL1 will be a great car, just like the SS is, but I also think there will be areas of improvement "depending" on the price tag. That's not negative, it's fact.

Originally Posted by radz28

When just about all the posts I read from you (and I admitted I probably haven't read all of them) do nothing but harp on how crappy every part of CAMARO is, how do you think you'll be characterized? If it walks like a duck...
I, like many others, don't have blind faith, however, I think most of us try to see the bigger picture. I'm sorry I don't have the intellegence you do, but GM doesn't make cars for fanatics (which I believe you are - I am, too), they make cars to sell to as many people as they can. They are not going to stuff solid subframe bushings in the rear cradle because they don't want an average consumer who like the looks more than appreciates the performance of CAMARO to go across the street to Brand X for a more comfortable compliant ride. Many of the attribues of the aftermarket parts those companies sell affect NVH, and most buyers don't like that racket. We can appreciate it's benefits, but we're not the majority.

And no - if I'm wrong, I'll post it for everyone. I'm a big boy and admit my mistakes. You're the one coming into these topics smearing whatever you want to call if everywhere. I'm not suggesting an apology would be necessary, however, I just get a feeling of a lack of respect. That could just be the whole internet-thing, though.

You know what. Agreed. I am an old school fanatic "muscle car" dude. That's the reason I purchased an SS with "all" the options I could get. And, "expected" the hard-core gritty, down to the bone SS not the girly-man version.
I think most who bought the SS with the big monster 8cyl. M6, would agree, those who didn't don't really care for the same fanactic ride. Again, my opinion not negative just saying like it is.
As for intelligence you appear to be quite knowledeable and all points are valid, just a differing perspective. Mine may be that of the T.dot (no) radical say it like it is fanatic, yours may be that of the Crapimento subtle tactfull cafe rules politically correct fanatic. LOL
I enjoy writing, challenging intellectual debate, and seeing other points of view so please don't perceive as all bad. Cool?

[radz28]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

Bro', it's only negative to you because I don't agree with your point of view. The difference here is I'm not saying your negative to my view on things, you're entitled to believe what you will and to have your own opinion. I respect that but doesn't mean I have to agree with you or slam you because of it. It's called debate or discussion.
Like you and everyone else I think the ZL1 will be a great car, just like the SS is, but I also think there will be areas of improvement "depending" on the price tag. That's not negative, it's fact.

IMHO - it's your delivery. No one is asking for anyone to sugarcoat anything (who has the time for that?...). However, when you take the time to list paragraphs of broken CAMARO parts, it just reads (to me) like you're bashing. It's not only negative to him, or me; have a look around...

I'm done. We're a bunch of uber passionate CAMARO-people. Can't we find some Mustang and Challenger members to beat up on?... j/k but not really

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by radz28

IMHO - it's your delivery. No one is asking for anyone to sugarcoat anything (who has the time for that?...). However, when you take the time to list paragraphs of broken CAMARO parts, it just reads (to me) like you're bashing. It's not only negative to him, or me; have a look around...

I'm done. We're a bunch of uber passionate CAMARO-people. Can't we find some Mustang and Challenger members to beat up on?... j/k but not really

I can be quite passionate about something I really like or care about, and time spent writing is just something I enjoy doing especially when backing up with facts. Not bashing at all, and I know why sometimes bad decisions are made to scale back on scope.
Where can we find some pony-lubbers or moscar'ers to on?
Last time I did that my account got susspended for a week.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

I can be quite passionate about something I really like or care about, and time spent writing is just something I enjoy doing especially when backing up with facts. Not bashing at all, and I know why sometimes bad decisions are made to scale back on scope.
Where can we find some pony-lubbers or moscar'ers to on?
Last time I did that my account got susspended for a week.

Maybe we should be easy on them then. I don't want anyone getting suspended

[GoldCartridgeGamer]

Never saw this posted anywhere on this thread or on this site so sharing this:

[BiggFoot]

Do you guys like the "popping" noise the exhaust makes on the ZL1 as it winds down from a rev? Just wondering? EVERYTHING else is "fantastic"

[GoldCartridgeGamer]

I don't mind the popping/gurgle noise as it revs down, but prefer it not to be there. I figure it is because the car is still a prototype, unrefined, etc. If it still does make that sound in final production then it is no big deal to me.

[DangerZL1]

I'm not crazy about the popping either, but most of the reving of the engine will be under load and not free reving, so the popping shouldn't be an issue.

[radz28]

I think a lot of that popping will deminish after the car's warmed up. I noticed that when started cold, or even after the car hadn't been running for more than an hour, the exhaust note was more raspy. I'm sure, after the car warms up, that popping will pretty much not be there. Considering the 4 cats' and two resonators, I doubt it's going to be bad. What kind of person is really going to drive WOT on an FI car when it's not warmed up? Also - it's not like the car's going to sound like that unless you drive the car aggressive enough to result in the valves to open. If they're anything like the 'Vette system, I'm sure we're going to get a similar sound.

Here are the OEM dual-mode mufflers off 'Vettes (I think they're LS3 cars, but it shouldn't be too dissimilar from the LS7 and LS9 styles). The last couple images are the mods' some are doing to make these truly "open", if you will, so there are nearly no muffling with the valves open. Additionally, if I remember correctly, the 'Vette guys are also able to pull a fuse to disable the valves from closing, keeping them open all the time, which is pretty cool

[radz28]

I think modifications along these lines are going to be GREAT alternatives to ABs or CBs, so long as the rest of the exhaust is large enough and free-flowing enough not to be a big restriction, much like SS exhaust (LS3) already is. I know one of the first mods' for me will be resonator eliminators, probably replace the OEM H-pipe with a good X-pipe, and cut the mufflers open for mods' like the ones shown. I'll probably leave the dual-mode function, though, because I don't want trouble from the "Man", . You guys doing LTs will probably benefit greatly from keeping the dual-modes from the OEM mufflers I imagine.

The exhaust is one of the many features I LOVE about ZL1