[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by oldman

The superchevy article says preload is 1/2 to 1 turn. But from memory .004 to .006 is a 1/4 turn right? 32 to 34 to an inch pitch bolts. I don't know?!? Heck mine was setup a year ago and before that the "LS7" lifter has so much travel just about anything will work it is after-all stock spec production. From memory I got 16 std pushrods 2 over / undersize .025, 1 over / undersized for .050, so 22 total pushrods (plus one adjustable length one). I'mm talking .025 and Comp Cam on the Rs is talking .004 to .006, that to my mind is only possible with a full stud based roller rocker. I must be missing something here as the superchevy article is talking .1 delta on their pushrod which is TWICE as big as my biggest oversize / undersize pushrod, FOUR times as big delta on my "normal" undersize /oversize pushrods. What???

I believe they mean 1/2-1 turn to when the bolt stops turning. Then it's usually another 1/4 turn to 22ft lbs. I know over the years that 1 1/4- 1 1/2 turns past zero lash to 22ft lbs torqued is normally where LS7 lifters like to be(.070-.090). I set my Morel lifters up at 1 1/8 which put my preload around.060 cold and .048 hot. I believe Johnson 2110 call for even less.

[Darth Martel]

I'm not exactly sure what cam specs I have. I ordered the cmooth idle N/A cam. So, I'm not sure how aggressive it is. I didn't have the heads ported. I probably would have had it not been for me also needing a torque converter. So, that took precedence with my budget. Otherwise, I have the mods in my signature plus the cam and torque converter. My stock IM and TB were ported by PRAY. So, I'm not making crazy power. 500 horse maybe. I might add a blower and do the fuel upgrades down the line along with some handling upgrades but, really this was supposed to be it for awhile and satisfy my needs for extra get up and go.

So will I be good if I just take the LS7 lifters? I figure the Johnsons would give me peace of mind on longevity.

It sounds like I should do preload checks regardless despite JRE telling me they'll work. So, I'll need an adjustable pushrod for that. How do I turn the cam to get it at zero for the first lifter? Or am I really just concerned with the rocker to gind zero lash and not worry about cam position?

How do I go about relieving the coolant line pressure? I didn't reslize I'd have to drain the oil after replacing the lifters but, if the coolant is going to end up mixing with oil during this process, then yeah, new oil is a must.

What other little things should I be aware of?

[BlueinTN]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Imo you can't really keep a hydraulic lifter with .200 travel from pumping up by increasing preload. once you go past 1/2 travel you increase the risk of bottoming out. Ideally you want to run a short or reduced travel lifter for something in a high rpm application.

I am glad you are here to learn...I am always looking to learn something new as well. It's the only way you progress. Oldman has been very helpful on this forum. Welcome aboard!!

Hemi guys are cheating somehow and going like .020" which I think it crazy.


Guess its why I always liked old school solid cams.



Ill try and find the link. I read alot and it might be on FB and might be on a forum I cant remember.




As far as the OP I feel for you,man Ill probably never mod my car. I dont really agree "its on you" when you pay for something and then have to pay again just to make it right. I think thats on the shop...but reading here I am in a small small minority.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Darth Martel

So will I be good if I just take the LS7 lifters? I figure the Johnsons would give me peace of mind on longevity.

The LS7 lifter would work only on a gentle ramp sub .600 lift cam either cam motion or GM hot cam. It has lots of travel so it it pretty easy to setup. One could literally throw it together and it will work. It is a factory part and given near factory lift and ramps all should be well.


All TSP cams have fast ramp and .635+ lift, you most use a Jonson with the correct preload. This can only be done with:
1) studs and fully adjustable rollers
2) +/- pushrods I think mine were in .025 increments.

Originally Posted by Darth Martel

It sounds like I should do preload checks regardless despite JRE telling me they'll work. So, I'll need an adjustable pushrod for that.

If your were running comp cam R lifters there is no way IMO for them to have EVER worked on a fixed length push rod, no adjustable rocker. There just (AFAIK) not enough length selections to get the preload that close.



The adjustable rod is to check for proper, you need only one. Then you select a pushrod that will place the lifter plunger in the middle of the throw.

Originally Posted by Darth Martel

How do I turn the cam to get it at zero for the first lifter? Or am I really just concerned with the rocker to gind zero lash and not worry about cam position?

The Katech video does a good job this, takes a lot more turns but it is easy to understand. Note the Johnson lifter is taller than the LS7. You do have to add in for aluminum cold block growth.. that is why Katch (assuming) is saying .070 in the video, somebody chime in here, I don't usually work on non-ajustable valvetrains.
https://www.tickperformance.com/john...nes-part-2110/

How do I go about relieving the coolant line pressure? I didn't reslize I'd have to drain the oil after replacing the lifters but, if the coolant is going to end up mixing with oil during this process, then yeah, new oil is a must.

What other little things should I be aware of?

There is a drain cock on the bottom of the radiator (forget which side). You may not have to drain oil, but I would for sure change the filter and check for stuff in the filter. That said it looks like the comp R lifters need to be set carefully or they will fail. So I would not worry about oil pressure or junk in the oil. It is the Comp R lifter (assumed) as they are for race applications only. Once again don't know if they are Rs or not. Hard to believe the vendor can't tell you what lifters they are or are not.

Thank god I did NOT order the Rs... so if I read this right, I go with heal of cam, zero lash the adjustable pushrod, measure pushrod add .035 for the Johnson preload and .015 for the aluminum = .050, if you have to make a mistake it is better to longer as the normal Johnson lifter has about near the LS7's .200 travel.

Interesting that Johnson does say "NOT recommended for lifts above .630" so even the Johnson lifter is NOT built for the lift of most vendor cams.... interesting to say the least.

[Darth Martel]

JRE should be open today. They've been down several days last week due to power outtages in the area. So, I'll hopefully, find out what lifters they actually gave me and then see if I can get a set of those Johnson 2110's out of them. I think for the headaches I've gotten from all this and what I've had to spend, out of pocket, for this mess, it's the least they could do.

At least, I'll never need to pay anybody to do this type of work again since I'm going to learn to do it myself. Can anybody suggest a good reference book or manual for diving into this engine? I'm taking notes from this thread as well as some others on here. I'm trying to devour as much information as I can so, I have a solid understanding of what I'm doing.

thanks guys

[Darth Martel]

The lifters I was supplied were TopLine 345A 2281S

Or as I call them... GARBAGE

[oldman]

If you worked on a SBC or ANY V8, this engine is about the same here are the strange things:
1) it is DI and if you have a + fuel lobe that has to shimmed in. There are lots of info on how to do it.
2) the factory DI HPFP to fuel rail has a one time use metal tube, same on the driver's side after the T. The original ones had a blue coating of "sumting" the others that I have ordered are perfectly clean to the naked eye. I have gone 2x reuse, but others insist there is something still magical about these two lines. I literally can't see it.
3)The front damper bolt has a different torque setting new / used
4) The oil pump need to be marked when removed. I just used red spray paint but they do sell doodoo plastic markers. If you screw up, you MUST buy a new pump.
5) the VVT can be locked solid, or have a block put inside for anywhere from 0 to 22 degrees of movement. Most guys just lock it, as most tuners can't or wont make use of it. There are also questions of reliability. Some people go to a complete delete but this requires a new timing cover and is rather expensive. Cam bolt is onetime use. You can't tighten it to the torque to yield spec as it stress the chain. You torque it and then mark it and bump it to yield with a impact gun and if you screw up you have to do it again and again.

6) DoD delete cams have the oil passages blocked.

7) main, rod, and head bolts are throw away items. This is my opinion but the ARP head studs call for WAY too much toque, use ARP lube and torque them -10 ft lbs. My opinion. Factory bolt holes can only take so much, I already feel for yours. One of my factory holes is way over sunk in depth and the stud won't bottom, so I have to loctite it in, let it rest and harden with a preload and then put the nut / washer on. Total pain in the butt. I might if I ever pull the engine apart just use a factory torque to yield bolt in this area. I've already purchased a kit to helicoil this, but the threads are actually mint just the hole is too deep... like it goes to China.
6) If you change clutch the flywheel bolts are also TtY, and the ARP bolts WON'T fit!!!! Even though they say they are for the LT1 Gen V. Oh the fit but no socket can turn them. What was ARP thinking?!???
7) it is kind of hard to change cam from front of car but can be done, without dropping the pan
8) it is difficulty to pull the M6 short block out of the car due to the length of the dual mass flywheel.
9) 2017 up have the new 1234 freon, which is rape me expensive, all components can take normal R134, you can't order the older line with fittings, it you try you will get the 1234 line. So I had to get conversion fittings for my A/C refill stuff. The original line must be gold now so don't break or bend it (all joints are cheapo single bolt).
10) one A/C compressor bolt is a bear to get to, it is the front lower one. Good luck with that one, takes a lot of swearing.
11) don't overtighten the cat to factory header, you don't hate it, it don't hate you, the hot exhaust will make these a BEAR to get off if you King Torque them on.
12) drain anti-freeze and re-use. change filter after break-in. I then change engine oil at 1000 miles. Then go to more normal change level after that.
13) IMO, no cam over .600 lift and / or fast ramps can last 100K miles, be prepaired to check for wear on the cam every so often and also change out the springs every so often. Sure there maybe internet stories on how my .635 lift cam went 300k miles never had the valvecovers off. Hence I said IMO, everything is a bell-shaped curve and high lift fast ramp profiles will have a mean time between failure sub 100K IMO or course.
14) factory rod bolts get suspect over 6800 RPM... at some point say 7100 RPM the get REALLY suspect. ARP makes a nice replacement set.
15) you can check the degree of the cam, but there is no way to change it if your cam is ground wrong. So people are degree'ing their cam for shiznets and giggles. Large duration cams need to check piston to valve clearance, you should have no issues with your cam

[Tim M]

Oldman: lots of golden nuggets there - thanks!

[6spdhyperblue]

For adjusting cam timing use the livernois piece

https://www.enginelabs.com/features/...timing-system/

[cmitchell17]

Originally Posted by Darth Martel

The lifters I was supplied were TopLine 345A 2281S

Or as I call them... GARBAGE

Pulling the radiator is a PITA, I jacked the front of the car up and pulled it out from the bottom, there is millions of hoses and stuff in the way that you have to navigate around since the radiator is squeezed in there tight.

I did my cam, heads, lifters, afm delete from my 19x19 garage with just a cheap craftsman mechanics tool set and a couple of cardboard boxes to put stuff on besides the concrete floor.

You should get a few of these:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thexton-THE...-/192976920517

And you really should get this too:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Long-Reach-...wAAOSw6zheJhM2

Thats not of course a complete list of tools but I would certainly invested in them if id have known beforehand.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

For adjusting cam timing use the livernois piece

https://www.enginelabs.com/features/...timing-system/

can't find it on their site, but what I did find is their stud kit and check it out they say 105 ft-lbs which is what I calculate it the proper torque. ARP is 115 and this is stretching the bolt to distortion yield.

[6spdhyperblue]

Here ya go.
https://www.livernoismotorsports.com/product/LPP821112

I keep flipping between just porting the heads and doing h/c. The idea of leaving the afm lifters in there kills me. I’m seeing 5-10rwhp by just removing the afm lifters.

It’s a lot of work just to throw in a lt5 cam. Just like you’re saying about the threads. Tearing through and moving crap around kills the clips and hoses. There’s no clear path

[oldman]

LT5 cam is too mild, I do a custom cam motion one with .594 lift or even 585

Here is one off the shelf:
https://cammotion.com/gen-5-lt-camsh...218-228-114-5/

114 LSA and upto 4degrees of motion on the phaser. The cam is installed +5 so the retard ( I think) should put it near straight up.

[GAOLDGUY]

This is impressive from "oldman" and should be a sticky somehow.