[gameovergt]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I will give credit where it is due and say the Mustang does sound good. However it isn't THAT good that it makes the Camaro sound like trash. The Camaro sounds great, even if the Mustang might sound a bit better. One big difference is that I can put LTs and a 3 inch exhaust on a Camaro and have virtually no drone. Do that in a Mustang and your ears will bleed after 20 minutes of highway driving at 2000+ RPMs. My GT had such drone that if I had coins in the cup holder they would rattle at normal cruising speeds. And you would not be able to hold a conversation at 70 MPH. That was with a MBRP stainless steel catback. My SS was quiet at cruising speeds but at WOT it sounded wicked.

You have to buy a quality exhaust system for no drone such as Corsa or Borla. I have longtubes with no cats, Steeda H Pipe, FRPP/Borla Touring axleback with zero drone, whisper quiet in the cabin.

But the 6th gen Camaro with longtubes & full exhaust sounds better than any Coyote mustang I have ever heard.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by shaffe

That's a fair point. I was commenting more on we see what these cars can do, they get reviewed and test against each other and then we debate the results. There are times where the better performing car wins the head to head (see pretty much any GT vs SS matchup since both went to 6th gen) or times where the better performing car loses (5th Gen GT500 vs 5th Gen ZL1, ZL1 vs GT350) To me there is more to it than just all out performance, the fun factor plays a huge role to me. A couple of years ago I would probably would have said all out performance mattered most but my views have changed as I've gotten a little older and learned to enjoy things more

My 04 gt was about half second slower than my 07. The 07 was a better car, faster car, nicer interior and just all around better, but I had much more enjoyment in my 04. I don't know if it was because the 04 was way less refined, but driving that car hard to me put a bigger smile on my face than the 07 even though the 07 was faster. After about a year of owning the 07 I wish I had never gotten it and kept my 04.

If you haven't yet done so watch Everyday Driver episode on MT TV, they did a H2H comparison between a GT350R and an A10 ZL1. I won't spoil the results but they did get into the driving characteristics, and pure driving enjoyment of both cars.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/deta...PMW/ref=atv_dp

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

If you haven't yet done so watch Everyday Driver episode on MT TV, they did a H2H comparison between a GT350R and an A10 ZL1. I won't spoil the results but they did get into the driving characteristics, and pure driving enjoyment of both cars.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/deta...PMW/ref=atv_dp

The automotive press also picks the SS, SS M6 and SS 1LE over the GT, GT*, PP1 and PP2. Aplha and LT1 real word torque.

I would bet a ZL1 1LE vs GT350R head to head would yield a Camaro win. Track car vs track car thing

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by newmoon

If you haven't yet done so watch Everyday Driver episode on MT TV, they did a H2H comparison between a GT350R and an A10 ZL1. I won't spoil the results but they did get into the driving characteristics, and pure driving enjoyment of both cars.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/deta...PMW/ref=atv_dp

They don't put the Camaro into track mode and then complain how the ride is too smooth and the car doesn't provide enough input from the road, then "having 10 gears is too much" when it was them who chose to compare an M6 Mustang to an A10 Camaro...

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I will give credit where it is due and say the Mustang does sound good. However it isn't THAT good that it makes the Camaro sound like trash. The Camaro sounds great, even if the Mustang might sound a bit better. One big difference is that I can put LTs and a 3 inch exhaust on a Camaro and have virtually no drone. Do that in a Mustang and your ears will bleed after 20 minutes of highway driving at 2000+ RPMs. My GT had such drone that if I had coins in the cup holder they would rattle at normal cruising speeds. And you would not be able to hold a conversation at 70 MPH. That was with a MBRP stainless steel catback. My SS was quiet at cruising speeds but at WOT it sounded wicked.

That's how my 04 GT was with a MRT H pipe and Flowmaster AT cat back lol. That thing would rattle the windows with the drone! IIRC around 2500 RPM is where it was the absolute worst. Switched it to Borla Stingers and just about eliminated all the drone.

Originally Posted by hotlap

The automotive press also picks the SS, SS M6 and SS 1LE over the GT, GT*, PP1 and PP2. Aplha and LT1 real word torque.

I would bet a ZL1 1LE vs GT350R head to head would yield a Camaro win. Track car vs track car thing

Thats true . I don't actually even remember the last time a GT won a head to head against the SS probably sometime early 5th gen for both?

[gameovergt]

Originally Posted by shaffe

That's how my 04 GT was with a MRT H pipe and Flowmaster AT cat back lol. That thing would rattle the windows with the drone! IIRC around 2500 RPM is where it was the absolute worst. Switched it to Borla Stingers and just about eliminated all the drone.



Thats true . I don't actually even remember the last time a GT won a head to head against the SS probably sometime early 5th gen for both?

I am a die hard Mustang guy, have been my whole life(born 1974), owned 17. TBH there haven't been many times stock vs stock that the mustang has outperformed the Fbodies at the track or strip. GM has always put performance as a priority while Ford tends to try a compromise with the mustang except in specific models. I've always had fun modding my mustangs.

I've only owned a couple of Fbodies: 2000 Trans AM & 2010 Camaro 1 SS. Loved both for looks/performance.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by gameovergt

I am a die hard Mustang guy, have been my whole life(born 1974), owned 17. TBH there haven't been many times stock vs stock that the mustang has outperformed the Fbodies at the track or strip. GM has always put performance as a priority while Ford tends to try a compromise with the mustang except in specific models. I've always had fun modding my mustangs.

I've only owned a couple of Fbodies: 2000 Trans AM & 2010 Camaro 1 SS. Loved both for looks/performance.

I remember when I got my 04 GT, a friend had a 97 Z28. He always wanted to race me and one day we finally lined up. As soon as he did his burnout I said to my self this isn't gonna end well for me lol, he put bus lengths on me.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

They don't put the Camaro into track mode and then complain how the ride is too smooth and the car doesn't provide enough input from the road, then "having 10 gears is too much" when it was them who chose to compare an M6 Mustang to an A10 Camaro...

It's actually no surprise that newmoon would post and like a stupid nonsensical head to head like this... subjective victories are all gt350 guys can hope for... zl1 had an m6 option but they opt for the one they're going to complain about, and apparently didn't put it in track mode according to arpad... newmoon probably agrees that the zl1 ten speed is too much but just right on the GT because it's a high reving motor lol.

Btw I sound like a gt350 hater but I actually think it's a badass car. Just a have to troll the troll lol. I'd take a gt350 over a gt500 or auto zl1 all day.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by hotlap

The automotive press also picks the SS, SS M6 and SS 1LE over the GT, GT*, PP1 and PP2. Aplha and LT1 real word torque.

I would bet a ZL1 1LE vs GT350R head to head would yield a Camaro win. Track car vs track car thing

But the mustang has a much bigger trunk opening!

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by gameovergt

You have to buy a quality exhaust system for no drone such as Corsa or Borla. I have longtubes with no cats, Steeda H Pipe, FRPP/Borla Touring axleback with zero drone, whisper quiet in the cabin.

But the 6th gen Camaro with longtubes & full exhaust sounds better than any Coyote mustang I have ever heard.

While MBRP wasn't high quality I definitely don't think they were low quality. I'd say they were a budget mid-grade system. And the price was great. The problem was that Borla and Corsa exhausts were all close to twice as much and I couldn't justify spending that much money on a cat-back.

Originally Posted by hotlap

I would bet a ZL1 1LE vs GT350R head to head would yield a Camaro win. Track car vs track car thing

I don't think Ford has anything that costs under $400K that can beat a ZLE. I think GM built the ZLE with the then-future GT500 in mind. They were likely building it so that it could still beat a great handling car with much more HP.

Originally Posted by shaffe

That's how my 04 GT was with a MRT H pipe and Flowmaster AT cat back lol. That thing would rattle the windows with the drone! IIRC around 2500 RPM is where it was the absolute worst. Switched it to Borla Stingers and just about eliminated all the drone.

My 03 was a convertible auto with 4.10s. Highway speeds saw 3K or more RPMs and the drone was horrible. My 15 GT was a convertible M6 with the 3.31 gear option and highway speeds were typically over 2K-2500 RPMs. The drone was even worse in that car. And I was gonna do LTs too.

[rocket403]

I had 2 Fox Mustangs 90 and 92 (notch back non GT 5.0L 5sp) and in all the races that I had I never once was beaten by a Camaro/Firebird and the couple races that I had with the Vette were even.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

While MBRP wasn't high quality I definitely don't think they were low quality. I'd say they were a budget mid-grade system. And the price was great. The problem was that Borla and Corsa exhausts were all close to twice as much and I couldn't justify spending that much money on a cat-back..

Yeah Borla is definitely expensive. My Flowmaster cat back was like 300 bucks, the Borla's were close to 600 and that was back in like 2006 when I did that. I think a Borla Cat back now is over a grand.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I don't think Ford has anything that costs under $400K that can beat a ZLE. I think GM built the ZLE with the then-future GT500 in mind. They were likely building it so that it could still beat a great handling car with much more HP.

It will be interesting to see what the CFTP does. The ZLE is in an another world of performance. And even if the CFTP does beat it, its a 94K car. To me as I have said before it would need to be a substantial gap to justify that price.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

My 03 was a convertible auto with 4.10s. Highway speeds saw 3K or more RPMs and the drone was horrible. My 15 GT was a convertible M6 with the 3.31 gear option and highway speeds were typically over 2K-2500 RPMs. The drone was even worse in that car. And I was gonna do LTs too.

Yep, had 4.10s in my 04 as well. Had to cruise right at 55 or go 75-80 to avoid the drone zone with the flowmasters

Originally Posted by rocket403

I had 2 Fox Mustangs 90 and 92 (notch back non GT 5.0L 5sp) and in all the races that I had I never once was beaten by a Camaro/Firebird and the couple races that I had with the Vette were even.

F-body cars would eat me for lunch at the strip, but oddly enough I never lost a 04-06 GTO (everyone I raced needed the driver mod badly)

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by rocket403

I had 2 Fox Mustangs 90 and 92 (notch back non GT 5.0L 5sp) and in all the races that I had I never once was beaten by a Camaro/Firebird and the couple races that I had with the Vette were even.

You must have raced a lot of bad drivers.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yeah Borla is definitely expensive. My Flowmaster cat back was like 300 bucks, the Borla's were close to 600 and that was back in like 2006 when I did that. I think a Borla Cat back now is over a grand.



It will be interesting to see what the CFTP does. The ZLE is in an another world of performance. And even if the CFTP does beat it, its a 94K car. To me as I have said before it would need to be a substantial gap to justify that price.



Yep, had 4.10s in my 04 as well. Had to cruise right at 55 or go 75-80 to avoid the drone zone with the flowmasters



F-body cars would eat me for lunch at the strip, but oddly enough I never lost a 04-06 GTO (everyone I raced needed the driver mod badly)

My 06 ls2 gto always treated me well and performed, 04s were slow though. It held it's own just fine with camaros and early s550s, until the 6th gens and 2018+ 5.0s those, would walk me lol.