[Whitespeed]

Solved! See post #8

I recently replaced the front pads on my 1LE with OEM 1LE pads, and I'm now hearing a a rhythmic clicking/creaking noise from the front of the car under moderate to heavy braking. Road and wind noise drown it out over 60kph (~40mph), but it is very apparent every time I come to a stop. With the windows up, it is more of a rhythmic creaking noise, and with the windows down, it is more of a distinct rhythmic clicking noise. It is definitely coming from the front of the car, but sounds like it is coming from both sides. There is nothing else unusual about the braking performance. I'm not getting any vibration or pedal pulsation. I'm very experienced when it comes to brake work and this isn't the first time I've replaced the pads on my 1LE. But I can't understand why this is happening now. The car has approximately 13,000 miles on it. Rotors are still in excellent condition.

I have new brake pad anti-rattle springs that I may try. Also, the old pads still have life in them, and I may put them back in as an experiment.

Anyone else experience this (I searched and couldn't find anything), or have any other ideas?


Nigel

[cmfhsu]

I had this for months & finally found this thread:

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=502195

I solved my click by applying anti-seize to the mating surface of my lug nuts & making sure my torque was absolutely accurate. I'd already applied fluid film to my hubs & rotor hats, so I didn't need to apply anti seize.

[Whitespeed]

Originally Posted by cmfhsu

I had this for months & finally found this thread:

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=502195

I solved my click by applying anti-seize to the mating surface of my lug nuts & making sure my torque was absolutely accurate. I'd already applied fluid film to my hubs & rotor hats, so I didn't need to apply anti seize.

Thanks for the reply! I am familiar with that post and I'm actually the last one to reply to it (I disagree with the corrosion hypothesis). Unfortunately, this appears to be something different. I no longer get any clicking when turning, but only under braking. Were you experiencing this under braking?


It's also not a steady state click. More like click, click click... click, click, click... with each wheel rotation and gets louder the harder I brake. Although, road and wind noise drown it out at speeds over 40mph. It appears to only be coming from the front, but I cant tell if it's from only one side or both.


Nigel

[cmfhsu]

Only under moderate to heavy braking. Mine seemed to stem from an under torqued wheel.

Mine sounded like cracking more than clicking.

[cdrptrks]

Originally Posted by cmfhsu

I had this for months & finally found this thread:

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=502195
I solved my click by applying anti-seize to the mating surface of my lug nuts & making sure my torque was absolutely accurate.

I would double check your lug nut torque after a few days and again after a few weeks after you have driven it hard and let everything cool down for a few hours.

Incorrect: actually more clamping force instead of less

The anti-seize may cause less clamping force to be applied at 140 ft/lbs than would otherwise be applied dry.

[cmfhsu]

Thanks for the tip - it's quite the opposite, actually. I reduce my wheel torque by ~20% to prevent overtightening, since the anti seize is a lubricant.

[cdrptrks]

Sorry I got it backwards; you're correct. I would still be afraid of lug nuts coming lose over time from vibrations though if using anti-seize. Tire rack and permatex recommend no anti-sieze.

Step 7: "Do not apply anti-seize compound to the lug hardware or studs."

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tiretec....jsp?techid=39

"Permatex® does not recommend the use of any anti-seize product on wheel studs. Many people have used anti-seize for this applications, however, there is the potential for over-torqueing and therefore, higher clamp loads and potentially dangerous bolt stretch."

https://www.permatex.com/faqwd/perma...uts/?locale=en

"The tech folks at Tire Rack state: "Torque specifications are for dry threads only. The fastener threads should be free of oil, dirt, grit, corrosion, etc. It is important NOT to lubricate hardware threads or seats. The friction at which torque is measured against should come from the hardware seats. Lubricating hardware threads and seats alters the friction generated which will result in inaccurate torque readings and/or over-torqueing of the hardware.""

https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ts/510559822/+

[Whitespeed]

SOLVED!

I had the brakes apart a couple of times looking for something that the rotor was possibly rubbing on when the brakes were deflecting under load, like a bent dust shield or some other piece of bent brake hardware, but there appeared to be plenty of clearance around the rotors. I finally discovered that the noise was coming from friction between the aluminum rotor hat and the bushings the disk bolts to. Under braking load, the brake disk bushings move around in their respective slots in the aluminum hat, and if there is excessive friction there, it will apparently result in a creaking noise. I simulated this movement by prying between the rotor and the hat with a screwdriver as can be seen and heard in this video...




I suspected that the excess friction was due to brake dust that had made its way in between the hat and some of the bushings. To fix this, I tested each bushing for creaking and if it was, I repeatedly sprayed the bushing down with brake cleaner and flexed the hat to allow the cleaner to flush out the dust until the creaking stopped. This did the trick! Note however, that while one rotor made very obvious noises, as shown in the video, it was very hard to get the other rotor to creak this way, but it was still making some noise when I was driving the car. So, I just washed down every bushing in that rotor. It's possible that simply spraying wheel cleaner on the bushings and then hosing them down with water might have accomplished the same thing.

Hopefully this helps someone, because the noise was driving me crazy!


Nigel

[cmfhsu]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

Sorry I got it backwards; you're correct. I would still be afraid of lug nuts coming lose over time from vibrations though if using anti-seize. Tire rack and permatex recommend no anti-sieze.

Step 7: "Do not apply anti-seize compound to the lug hardware or studs."

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tiretec....jsp?techid=39

"Permatex® does not recommend the use of any anti-seize product on wheel studs. Many people have used anti-seize for this applications, however, there is the potential for over-torqueing and therefore, higher clamp loads and potentially dangerous bolt stretch."

https://www.permatex.com/faqwd/perma...uts/?locale=en

"The tech folks at Tire Rack state: "Torque specifications are for dry threads only. The fastener threads should be free of oil, dirt, grit, corrosion, etc. It is important NOT to lubricate hardware threads or seats. The friction at which torque is measured against should come from the hardware seats. Lubricating hardware threads and seats alters the friction generated which will result in inaccurate torque readings and/or over-torqueing of the hardware.""

https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ts/510559822/+

Now here's a topic spanning many decades and thousands of posts. I choose to use anti-seize on my threads & mating surfaces & reduce torque by 20%, then retorque after a few hundred miles at 15% reduced torque. I've had some really bad experiences with under-torqued wheels due to contaminants on the mating surfaces & threads; the anti-seize helps prevent corrosion on the threads & under-torquing wheels from contaminants.

My OE wheels never torqued properly at 140 pounds feet & I got the above clicking until I started lubricating the mating surface on the lug nut. It also took like 200 foot pounds of torque to break the lug nuts loose - could be related to the ceramic coating I applied to the wheels. Plus, in my previous Fiesta ST, I had some problems with the lugs galling (and rusting simultaneously), so I started making sure to put anti-seize on them; the 80% torque rule worked really well on that car too.

This method doesn't work for everyone, especially if you bring your car to shops where they'll take wheels & tires off or if you're not diligent in checking your torques. It's a risk I decide to take because I take my wheels off pretty often & regularly check torques.

Edit: I want to make clear for anybody reading this that you really need a very small amount of anti-seize. Don't glob it on - a small dab on the threads will do just fine.

[BlueinTN]

Originally Posted by cmfhsu

Now here's a topic spanning many decades and thousands of posts. I choose to use anti-seize on my threads & mating surfaces & reduce torque by 20%, then retorque after a few hundred miles at 15% reduced torque. I've had some really bad experiences with under-torqued wheels due to contaminants on the mating surfaces & threads; the anti-seize helps prevent corrosion on the threads & under-torquing wheels from contaminants.

My OE wheels never torqued properly at 140 pounds feet & I got the above clicking until I started lubricating the mating surface on the lug nut. It also took like 200 foot pounds of torque to break the lug nuts loose - could be related to the ceramic coating I applied to the wheels. Plus, in my previous Fiesta ST, I had some problems with the lugs galling (and rusting simultaneously), so I started making sure to put anti-seize on them; the 80% torque rule worked really well on that car too.

This method doesn't work for everyone, especially if you bring your car to shops where they'll take wheels & tires off or if you're not diligent in checking your torques. It's a risk I decide to take because I take my wheels off pretty often & regularly check torques.

Edit: I want to make clear for anybody reading this that you really need a very small amount of anti-seize. Don't glob it on - a small dab on the threads will do just fine.

I agree with what you posted. I do too.



Ill post of vid of my rim stuck on my Jeep. just reduce the torque of the lugnut if anyones worried about it.

[SloCal]

For future benefit for anyone else with this issue:

I didn’t have time to get wheels off and lift it. Figured before I use brakleen let me try wheel cleaner - it worked just spraying tons of wheel cleaner into rotor hat openings.

Didn’t need to flex the hats but imagine it it’s way dirtier that would be the move. Appreciate op posting this because I was sure it was a bracket or something before I saw the video.

Would think anyone should try wheel cleaner first and then brakleen/flexing brackets if former approach doesn’t work.

[MT-SS1LE]

Originally Posted by cmfhsu

Now here's a topic spanning many decades and thousands of posts. I choose to use anti-seize on my threads & mating surfaces & reduce torque by 20%, then retorque after a few hundred miles at 15% reduced torque. I've had some really bad experiences with under-torqued wheels due to contaminants on the mating surfaces & threads; the anti-seize helps prevent corrosion on the threads & under-torquing wheels from contaminants.

My OE wheels never torqued properly at 140 pounds feet & I got the above clicking until I started lubricating the mating surface on the lug nut. It also took like 200 foot pounds of torque to break the lug nuts loose - could be related to the ceramic coating I applied to the wheels. Plus, in my previous Fiesta ST, I had some problems with the lugs galling (and rusting simultaneously), so I started making sure to put anti-seize on them; the 80% torque rule worked really well on that car too.

This method doesn't work for everyone, especially if you bring your car to shops where they'll take wheels & tires off or if you're not diligent in checking your torques. It's a risk I decide to take because I take my wheels off pretty often & regularly check torques.

Edit: I want to make clear for anybody reading this that you really need a very small amount of anti-seize. Don't glob it on - a small dab on the threads will do just fine.

I do this exact same thing on multiple vehicles and have been for years. I use a torque reduction of 25%. You get much more consistent torque values with lubricated fasteners, that is undeniable. It is controversial, with many believing you will lose a wheel and kill someone. For those people, I suggest sticking to oem recommendations. It is critical that you re-check lug nut torque after driving for several miles, and do it at least 2-3 times. Especially with aluminum wheels as the lugs will loosen slightly until they finally stay put and never move until you want them to. But definitely not for everyone.

[Carguy755]

The dealer is stating the noise was corrected by applying grease to the pad slides....has anyone heard of this? Grease and brake pads could be a problem. Thoughts?

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Carguy755

The dealer is stating the noise was corrected by applying grease to the pad slides....has anyone heard of this? Grease and brake pads could be a problem. Thoughts?

That is not unusual, a recommended procedure, provided the grease is applied sparingly and carefully, avoiding the pad contact area.