[Evansa22]

We had a '15 m3 for a couple years, will probably never buy another European vehicle again. If it's new you get the free maintenance but after that hope you know how to work on it. No dipstick, which i found wierd. $1400 for spark plug replacement, did it in the garage for $200. They wanted $37k for an engine replacement when It was toast. However, Interior was nice, carbon fiber bits and what not. They are fast but definitely pay a premium on the service end.

Ended up going to a Japanese vehicle for dd purposes, very cost friendly and for 9k can build a turbo motor capable of hanging with a zl1.

[Grimlock212]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

Yes I would also choose an SS1LE over the Supra, better handling and a great car for the $

MotorTrend says the SS 1LE performs and drives better than the Supra while costing less. They actually wrote this in the conclusion of their Nissan Z vs Supra comparison. So clearly they were disappointed enough with the Supra and Z that they had to offer the SS 1LE as a better solution.

I’m a guy who likes BMWs. And Toyotas! I founded the Bay Area M3 club during the E30 M3 days (daily drove that car for over 15 fun years), and I’ve owned several Supras Turbos over the years.

When I see the new Supra it reminds me of the BMW M-Coupe “Clown Shoe”. The Supra isn’t good looking, it’s more odd looking. I don’t hate it, but it’s weird. Just like the Clown Shoe. In the end I think the Supra misses the target a bit, but I’m sure it’s fun enough. I considered it briefly before getting the Camaro.

My mom who is 80 years old now still drives her Clown Shoe that she bought new back in the day. It’s a cool (but odd) car, much like the new Supra.

[Bosse'sBoss]

Originally Posted by Grimlock212

MotorTrend says the SS 1LE performs and drives better than the Supra while costing less. They actually wrote this in the conclusion of their Nissan Z vs Supra comparison. So clearly they were disappointed enough with the Supra and Z that they had to offer the SS 1LE as a better solution. I’m a guy who likes BMWs. And Toyotas! I founded the Bay Area M3 club during the E30 M3 days (daily drive that car for over 15 fun years), and I’ve owned several Supras Turbos over the years. When I see the new Supra it reminds me of the BMW M-Coupe “Clown Shoe”. The Supra isn’t good looking, it’s more odd looking. I don’t hate it, but it’s weird. Just like the Clown Shoe. In the end I think the Supra misses the target a bit, but I’m sure it’s fun enough. I considered it briefly before getting the Camaro. My mom who is 80 years old now still drives her Clown Shoe that she bought new back in the day. It’s a cool (but odd) car, much like the new Supra.

From motortrend: "We could point out the fact that the Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE costs less and is worlds better to drive than either (plus it's quicker than both in the quarter mile)."

[Bosse'sBoss]

Definitely the V8 Camaro is a better performing car for the money.

[Grimlock212]

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

Yes I would also choose an SS1LE over the Supra, better handling and a great car for the $

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

From motortrend: "We could point out the fact that the Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE costs less and is worlds better to drive than either (plus it's quicker than both in the quarter mile)."

Yup, that’s the quote!

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

The '21+ Supra has pretty much run low 12s @ around 115-116 mph in every magazine test I've seen (Car and Driver had a '21 go 12.1 @ 117 mph and 0-60 in 3.8 seconds), so it's similar to the Camaro SS. The auto Camaro LT1 was run against the Supra in a recent YouTube video and the LT1 lost practically every race by about 1/2 a car, or so. They are essentially equally as quick as each other (Camaro SS and '21+ Supra 3.0).

As far as "world's better" to drive, my only comparison is vs my ZL1. The Supra is just different, maybe the limits aren't quite as high as the ZL1, but it's very good and a lot of fun to drive. It's very responsive to steering changes (quick body weight transfer), has good damping, not quite ZL1 level of damping, but still way better than my previous 2018 Mustang GT PP1 with MagneRide, and quick steering. The 3,350 lbs, better weight distribution, and short wheelbase make for a really responsive car. The throttle response is what you'd expect of a modern turbo car, nothing like the response of the ZL1. There's a little bit of turbo lag, maybe that's what the MT author was referring to that they didn't like. Or maybe the author isn't a fan of the more eager/quicker steering responses of the Supra compared to the Camaro.

For those saying you'd choose an SS 1LE over a Supra, that's fine. But I wouldn't choose to buy an SS 1LE when I already have a ZL1. I wanted something different, a contrast to the brute strength of the ZL1. I wanted something smaller, lighter, but still fun and fairly quick, and something that you don't see every day (so that ruled out a C7 Corvette, which I see a lot of).

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by CamOnlyJabroni

The Supra body does not flow well at all IMO but still manages to look pretty good in certain colors. Although much more expensive, I would go the M4 route if I was taking that path.

Nice Rides

Thanks. M4 is cool, but much more expensive than my Supra was, so it wasn't really on my radar (its more than ZL1 money).

Originally Posted by DaveC113

I agree, M4 is a higher end car altogether though. The new M2 looks really good despite the initial reactions to it's styling, and costs is similar vs the Supra as well. Personally, I'd go M2 and if I had the cash, the '21 or '22 M2 CS.

The one thing holding me back from any modern BMW would be long term cost of ownership. Might be fun to lease, but I prefer to own and keep long term especially with ICE cars being phased out over the next 15 years or so.

M2 CS is wayyyy more money than a Supra. It's like GT500 money. I think a regular previous gen M2 is similar in price to the Supra 3.0, but slower and less overall performance. The previous M2 Competition starts about $10k more than my Supra and isn't any quicker and is >250 lbs heavier and 5" taller. That height makes it too sedan like relative to the width and length, and the M2 looks are nothing special to me.

Originally Posted by Bosse'sBoss

Definitely the Camaro ZL1 is way superior to the Supra 3.0. I think that the Supra 3.0 compares better with the SS1LE. By the way, both of your cars look awesome in that color choice.

Thanks! Yes, no doubt the ZL1 is superior in overall performance to the Supra, but the Supra is also really fun to drive - I like the contrast to the ZL1. They are different, which I enjoy.

[FH212]

Nice write up! Its nice to have different options. My Camaros & Trans Am are garage queens, weekend cars and I daily a 2019 Lexus GS350 F Sport. When the kids are out of the house, (maybe in 3 years) I will myself be converting my SS 1LE into my daily and be looking to do something like you have done. Buy something different for a weekend car.

[Grimlock212]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

The '21+ Supra has pretty much run low 12s @ around 115-116 mph in every magazine test I've seen (Car and Driver had a '21 go 12.1 @ 117 mph and 0-60 in 3.8 seconds), so it's similar to the Camaro SS. The auto Camaro LT1 was run against the Supra in a recent YouTube video and the LT1 lost practically every race by about 1/2 a car, or so. They are essentially equally as quick as each other (Camaro SS and '21+ Supra 3.0).

As far as "world's better" to drive, my only comparison is vs my ZL1. The Supra is just different, maybe the limits aren't quite as high as the ZL1, but it's very good and a lot of fun to drive. It's very responsive to steering changes (quick body weight transfer), has good damping, not quite ZL1 level of damping, but still way better than my previous 2018 Mustang GT PP1 with MagneRide, and quick steering. The 3,350 lbs, better weight distribution, and short wheelbase make for a really responsive car. The throttle response is what you'd expect of a modern turbo car, nothing like the response of the ZL1. There's a little bit of turbo lag, maybe that's what the MT author was referring to that they didn't like. Or maybe the author isn't a fan of the more eager/quicker steering responses of the Supra compared to the Camaro.

For those saying you'd choose an SS 1LE over a Supra, that's fine. But I wouldn't choose to buy an SS 1LE when I already have a ZL1. I wanted something different, a contrast to the brute strength of the ZL1. I wanted something smaller, lighter, but still fun and fairly quick, and something that you don't see every day (so that ruled out a C7 Corvette, which I see a lot of).

I’ve definitely read that the suspension tuning isn’t very good from the factory (even though they continue to update it). This obviously won’t be an issue unless you are driving near the limit.

Also the BMW steering that the Supra uses is infamously bad.

Stoplight racing or roll racing, I’d expect the Supra automatic to win 9 out of 10 races. On the track, the SS 1LE has a huge advantage. So it depends on what you’re looking for out of the car.

As an owner of several Supra Turbos in the past I wanted to like the new car. It’s grown on me slightly, but I can’t get over the styling. There’s a blue special edition Supra in the area with the stripes in the back that looks pretty cool I guess. In the end I’d say the new Supra is a swing and a miss for me. I respect it. I want to love it, but I don’t.

[Grimlock212]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

Thanks. M4 is cool, but much more expensive than my Supra was, so it wasn't really on my radar (its more than ZL1 money).



M2 CS is wayyyy more money than a Supra. It's like GT500 money. I think a regular previous gen M2 is similar in price to the Supra 3.0, but slower and less overall performance. The previous M2 Competition starts about $10k more than my Supra and isn't any quicker and is >250 lbs heavier and 5" taller. That height makes it too sedan like relative to the width and length, and the M2 looks are nothing special to me.



Thanks! Yes, no doubt the ZL1 is superior in overall performance to the Supra, but the Supra is also really fun to drive - I like the contrast to the ZL1. They are different, which I enjoy.

Isn’t the M240 (or Z4 obviously) the BMW equivalent?

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by Grimlock212

I’ve definitely read that the suspension tuning isn’t very good from the factory (even though they continue to update it). This obviously won’t be an issue unless you are driving near the limit.

Also the BMW steering that the Supra uses is infamously bad.

Stoplight racing or roll racing, I’d expect the Supra automatic to win 9 out of 10 races. On the track, the SS 1LE has a huge advantage. So it depends on what you’re looking for out of the car.

As an owner of several Supra Turbos in the past I wanted to like the new car. It’s grown on me slightly, but I can’t get over the styling. There’s a blue special edition Supra in the area with the stripes in the back that looks pretty cool I guess. In the end I’d say the new Supra is a swing and a miss for me. I respect it. I want to love it, but I don’t.

If you can’t get over the styling, that’s fair. But as far as how it drives, you can’t really knock it til you've tried it. As far as suspension/chassis tuning, you might have read about the 2020 models. The 21s got a lot of upgrades besides the engine. It really is good:

Car and Driver, regarding the 21+ models:
“The Supra is a playful and willing companion on tight, technical roads, with a sharpness and precision that encourages you to drive it incrementally harder. The suspension tuning is particularly inspiring on a section of undulating left-right kinks, as the springs rebound with choreographed precision over slight crests into the next bend. Into the next turn, and the next, and so on it goes until the road finally straightens and we're left giggling with childlike glee.”

“The redone Supra hunkers down, tracks true, and won't surprise you with gratuitous oversteer like last year's car.”

“While the updates dialed out some body roll, we're glad that enough was left in to allow the Toyota to bob over surface imperfections and lean through curves. While not trendy, that bit of body motion delivers seat-of-the pants feedback that makes this car more fun and more alive than many other sports cars.”

[Reddy1LE]

I appreciate your feedback on the Supra as I’m contemplating on buying one and switching out of the 1LE. My ultimate sold would’ve been a targa release with M/T but hoping for a final release with that option.

[92mr2turbo]

Originally Posted by Grimlock212

In the end I’d say the new Supra is a swing and a miss for me. I respect it. I want to love it, but I don’t.

I keep telling myself if they would have called it anything but a Supra, I may have had a different perspective. I try to like it, but unless absolutely modified on the exterior I still don't care for it much.

[vexeclipse2007]

Had supra, and currently i have the zl1. Too be honest, i am glad i switched from the supra to the zl1. Dont get me wrong, i loved my supra. But more positives w the zl1

Plus parts are cheaper on the camaro! Lol