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Old 08-14-2022, 08:32 AM   #1
JSH


 
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Eddie and Maggie 2650 Boost Pressure (?)

What max psi are you guys seeing, and how much does it vary throughout the year?

Kong says it should make 23 psi, but he probably meant at sea level and not at 5800 ft.
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4/23 - 1.41/9.61/145 at DA 7000 ft. (only made five passes).
2/24 - LME 390, E2650, FBO, 100 oct.; 1116hp/ 1063tq; 109 oct. dyno next.
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Old 08-14-2022, 12:07 PM   #2
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A few guys like Jason Lieva are running 27 to 28. These blower can be spun up to about 27000 rpms and still be very reliable, however once you start spinning the hell out of them the 8 rib pulley system with the Magnuson tensioner will start slipping the belt. Jason faced that above 24 psi and was loosing boost down track and at high rpms on the dyno. so he replaced the 8 rib with toohighpsi 10 rib system that I'm getting. I don't plan on ever spinning it that high but I love the way it looks.
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Old 08-14-2022, 12:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laynlo15 View Post
A few guys like Jason Lieva are running 27 to 28. These blower can be spun up to about 27000 rpms and still be very reliable, however once you start spinning the hell out of them the 8 rib pulley system with the Magnuson tensioner will start slipping the belt. Jason faced that above 24 psi and was loosing boost down track and at high rpms on the dyno. so he replaced the 8 rib with toohighpsi 10 rib system that I'm getting. I don't plan on ever spinning it that high but I love the way it looks.
KaTech has said their Maggies stay around 18-19k rpm. Kong said it's Ok to go to the 21-22k range.
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'20 ZL1 1LE A10,
OEM short block, LME heads/valve train, E2650.
100+ octanes, no eth, no meth, no N2O.
2/23 - 1031/1004 wheel.
4/23 - 1.41/9.61/145 at DA 7000 ft. (only made five passes).
2/24 - LME 390, E2650, FBO, 100 oct.; 1116hp/ 1063tq; 109 oct. dyno next.
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Old 08-14-2022, 01:19 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
KaTech has said their Maggies stay around 18-19k rpm. Kong said it's Ok to go to the 21-22k range.
Those are safe numbers, I'm just saying you can push these 2650s to above 25000 rpms but there is always a risk. When I was at Magnuson we tested these before release to the numbers I'm speaking of. You'd never want to spin them to those numbers without a forged short block and a really good tuner, one mistake at those rpms and your gonna have some issues to deal with below the blower. I'm not in any way recommending this but others are doing it as well, not just Jason.
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Old 08-15-2022, 10:10 AM   #5
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While you're saying sea level, I'm going to talk in density.

I can see a 2-3-lb difference between hot Summer month boost and cold Fall/Winter conditions. I'm not monitoring enough, all the time, to suggest what other factors could be influencing these numbers (belt slip, fueling, etc.), but on one of our cars, we see as much as 16-psi (stock long block, and only CAI/103) in the cold temps down to top-14s/bottom 15s in Summer conditions.

I'm certainly not even close to being an expert, so the following probably doesn't matter, but I'm not sure you should be considered with boost as much as blower speed. You didn't really state exactly the situation, but just because I run 16-psi and make 700-WHP doesn't mean your (way) better combination, running 16-psi is making 700, right? Boost is just restriction (which I'm confident you already know), so unless you're trying to assess some measure of engine efficiency or a problem with the combination, it seems to me that focusing on blower speed might be more important.

I was re-watching an old CSP video where Andrew was messing with his pulley combination on his 2650 427 ZL1. While there were other issues with the car (exhaust I believe) that he was trying to address, he found that the power curve was slightly better with a slightly larger pulley because it wasn't working the blower as hard. He was making like mid-900s SAE, and I wonder if he could've just been fighting too small a TB/snout combination, too, but that's just a crude guess on my part. JRE's made something like 1100 with a 112 (TB)-combination, too, if I recall. I'm just saying that it seems like when you get close to 1000-WHP, the intake-side has to be improved over the 103 set-up. LMP's made 1320-WHP (I don't remember the fuel; 16-psi for an 1100 run, before porting that blower; 1320 at about 18-psi) on a hub dyno with a huge 170mm oval TB/snout. That was a different Maggie blower case, but my point remains. That was a full race car, but I think, perhaps, similar logic could be applied.
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Old 08-15-2022, 10:17 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
KaTech has said their Maggies stay around 18-19k rpm. Kong said it's Ok to go to the 21-22k range.
Katech likely says that because they are road course focused. At the drag strip guys push blowers a lot harder because it's only going to be at that rpm for 7-9 seconds at a time. I believe Greg Kong's advice is on point.
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Old 08-15-2022, 10:41 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by KingLT1 View Post
Katech likely says that because they are road course focused. At the drag strip guys push blowers a lot harder because it's only going to be at that rpm for 7-9 seconds at a time. I believe Greg Kong's advice is on point.
That's what we've spun them to on 93 pump gas with no meth. We have been over 23,000 with them before to make 1,000+ on E85.
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Old 08-15-2022, 10:52 AM   #8
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The max blower speed (contingent on removing all restrictions in front of the rotors) that maggy has dyno tested is 25k rpm with a cable 125mm throttlebody. Sure you can spin it faster, but this is definitely the danger zone where you know what you are getting into. Anytime you have a smaller throttlebody than this or you have a restrictive intake, the blower will be fighting itself at these blower speeds and ultimately will get really hot.

this question is too open ended, you need more engine background data to determine what is safe for your combination.

Boost level are based on a lot of different things (camshaft size, exhaust back pressure, displacement, etc). Again, need more info
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Old 08-15-2022, 10:59 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radz28 View Post
I'm just saying that it seems like when you get close to 1000-WHP, the intake-side has to be improved over the 103 set-up.
Yea, the 103 and CAI is a bit too large for my current build, and will be a bit small for my EForce build. Not sure how to test and prove it though.
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'20 ZL1 1LE A10,
OEM short block, LME heads/valve train, E2650.
100+ octanes, no eth, no meth, no N2O.
2/23 - 1031/1004 wheel.
4/23 - 1.41/9.61/145 at DA 7000 ft. (only made five passes).
2/24 - LME 390, E2650, FBO, 100 oct.; 1116hp/ 1063tq; 109 oct. dyno next.
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Old 08-15-2022, 01:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katech_Zach View Post
The max blower speed (contingent on removing all restrictions in front of the rotors) that maggy has dyno tested is 25k rpm with a cable 125mm throttlebody. Sure you can spin it faster, but this is definitely the danger zone where you know what you are getting into. Anytime you have a smaller throttlebody than this or you have a restrictive intake, the blower will be fighting itself at these blower speeds and ultimately will get really hot.

this question is too open ended, you need more engine background data to determine what is safe for your combination.

Boost level are based on a lot of different things (camshaft size, exhaust back pressure, displacement, etc). Again, need more info
That was my point, only a few are willing to run blower speeds above 25,000 but some have and with success, but its always a risk to do it.
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Old 08-15-2022, 01:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katech_Zach View Post
The max blower speed (contingent on removing all restrictions in front of the rotors) that maggy has dyno tested is 25k rpm with a cable 125mm throttlebody.
Greg says a 112 is best for max effort but I'm not going to push it very hard so my 103 and HPE's CAI will be good to start with.
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'20 ZL1 1LE A10,
OEM short block, LME heads/valve train, E2650.
100+ octanes, no eth, no meth, no N2O.
2/23 - 1031/1004 wheel.
4/23 - 1.41/9.61/145 at DA 7000 ft. (only made five passes).
2/24 - LME 390, E2650, FBO, 100 oct.; 1116hp/ 1063tq; 109 oct. dyno next.
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Old 08-15-2022, 02:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
Greg says a 112 is best for max effort but I'm not going to push it very hard so my 103 and HPE's CAI will be good to start with.
the 112 was the best available for awhile, now that the 120s are getting phased in, those will show benefits for people above 1000HP. The 112 is good for almost 20hp at redline over a 103 at 1000hp. We have not tested the difference between the 120 and 112 yet, but id imagine at 1000 it may be worth an additional 5-10, above 1000 even more.
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Old 08-15-2022, 04:37 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katech_Zach View Post
the 112 was the best available for awhile, now that the 120s are getting phased in, those will show benefits for people above 1000HP. The 112 is good for almost 20hp at redline over a 103 at 1000hp. We have not tested the difference between the 120 and 112 yet, but id imagine at 1000 it may be worth an additional 5-10, above 1000 even more.
I'm installing your XDI 30+ and will take a look at your TBs. It simply will not consume as much air or fuel up here. These equations change at this altitude. Perhaps a 112 would work.
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'20 ZL1 1LE A10,
OEM short block, LME heads/valve train, E2650.
100+ octanes, no eth, no meth, no N2O.
2/23 - 1031/1004 wheel.
4/23 - 1.41/9.61/145 at DA 7000 ft. (only made five passes).
2/24 - LME 390, E2650, FBO, 100 oct.; 1116hp/ 1063tq; 109 oct. dyno next.

Last edited by JSH; 08-15-2022 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 08-15-2022, 05:44 PM   #14
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We saw 29 psi on mine with a 416ci stock casting block (built bottom end). The block itself was the weak point and didn’t live long. The current setup is a 427ci and on the same pulley’s made 23 psi. The cam is also much more aggressive to help bleed off boost. In talking with Mike Sitar, the blower really shouldn’t be operated at higher than 25 psi or you’ll start seeing diminishing returns. Max efficiency is up to 20 psi.

On DA, we’ve only ran the car at the track on a pulley setup that made 20 psi on the dyno, but it made 18.5 psi in 3100 DA. I don’t recall what the DA was in the dyno room but obviously less. As a frame of reference, from 20-23 psi on the dyno it gained 100 RWHP.
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