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Old 02-22-2021, 01:20 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87 View Post
I think the vfn looks a lot better than the COPO and you don't lose quite as much visibility since the cowl isn't as wide.
I agree. The vfn looks sick. Only downside side is you lose the ram air effect that’s possible with the copo.
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Old 02-23-2021, 02:00 PM   #16
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I agree. The vfn looks sick. Only downside side is you lose the ram air effect that’s possible with the copo.
This is true, I guess I just assumed an OTR CAI or Rotofab would be used. If going right off of the Tb/velocity stack then the COPO makes more sense.

Side note, I really hate when guys are running a Rotofab or something that doesn't get fed by the opening on the hood but are running a COPO lol.
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Old 02-25-2021, 09:18 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by KingLT1 View Post
LT1 heads have some valves issues that seem to show up when you increase spring pressure, cam lobe intensity, and RPM. I believe Pray is around 4500.00 for a fully reworked set of ported OEM castings(New valve seats, valves, valve job, porting, springs...etc). However once he is done with them they seem to perform as good if not better then aftermarket stuff and even LS7 stuff as Dan mentioned.

I am not saying you can't get away with a port and valve job with new springs and hardware. Going that route is probably ok on something mild staying under 7k rpm. But if you are considering a more aggressive H/C setup with Nitrous on top it might be something to consider. Contact GPI or Pray and tell them what you are looking to do.

Sorry my notifications are turned off. $4,500 for reworked heads to work as good or better than aftermarket? Why not just spend less and get aftermarket that work just as good as aftermarket? Lol
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Old 02-25-2021, 09:29 PM   #18
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Sorry my notifications are turned off. $4,500 for reworked heads to work as good or better than aftermarket? Why not just spend less and get aftermarket that work just as good as aftermarket? Lol
Might be the way to go, my stock TSP PRC ported heads failed after about 10k miles on them:

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=588550

The valve seats are supposedly weak.
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Old 02-25-2021, 10:09 PM   #19
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Sorry my notifications are turned off. $4,500 for reworked heads to work as good or better than aftermarket? Why not just spend less and get aftermarket that work just as good as aftermarket? Lol
Because Prays ported reworked OEM heads outperform most aftermarket castings out of the box. You would need to have the aftermarket castings hand ported to match or best Prays OEM stuff...which is why he uses them still in most of his builds.
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Old 02-25-2021, 10:22 PM   #20
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My problem is, I’m up in Canada. I can only imagine what kind of times it would take to send them out and get them back. Having a set of heads ready to swap would be much more convenient. When I started the thread, I was thinking ported OEM heads were much more cost effective but now I’m thinking it’s going to cost less for aftermarket anyway
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Old 02-25-2021, 10:34 PM   #21
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My problem is, I’m up in Canada. I can only imagine what kind of times it would take to send them out and get them back. Having a set of heads ready to swap would be much more convenient. When I started the thread, I was thinking ported OEM heads were much more cost effective but now I’m thinking it’s going to cost less for aftermarket anyway
Yeah I don't understand why it costs so much for porting stock heads, I mean unless there is more set up time that I don't know about it doesn't make sense once they've got their CNC process.

Also I think you're still going to have to wait on aftermarket castings from most companies as well since they are going to stock them as cast and have to take time in finishing them.
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Old 02-26-2021, 01:01 AM   #22
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I’m not in a huge rush to get it done but I want take collect all the parts and do it at once with the car out of commission for the least amount of time. Either way, if porting or aftermarket is going to cost “the same” I’ll just get aftermarket and sell my oem heads once I’m done
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Old 02-26-2021, 07:37 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by cmitchell17 View Post
Yeah I don't understand why it costs so much for porting stock heads, I mean unless there is more set up time that I don't know about it doesn't make sense once they've got their CNC process.

Also I think you're still going to have to wait on aftermarket castings from most companies as well since they are going to stock them as cast and have to take time in finishing them.
It isn't just the (hand) porting, it's everything else. The new valve guides, new valves (you ever price custom made titanium intake and exhaust valves?), the valve job, etc.

IIRC, Brett told me that he makes almost the same profit on the stage 1 heads as his stage 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdzyHany View Post
I’m not in a huge rush to get it done but I want take collect all the parts and do it at once with the car out of commission for the least amount of time. Either way, if porting or aftermarket is going to cost “the same” I’ll just get aftermarket and sell my oem heads once I’m done

If time is any sort of issue for you, I wouldn't look into Pray ported factory castings. Last I heard, he was around a 9 month wait time on heads. and I think at that point, he just stopped taking new orders (for heads) in.
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Old 02-26-2021, 09:19 AM   #24
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It isn't just the (hand) porting, it's everything else. The new valve guides, new valves (you ever price custom made titanium intake and exhaust valves?), the valve job, etc.

IIRC, Brett told me that he makes almost the same profit on the stage 1 heads as his stage 4.




If time is any sort of issue for you, I wouldn't look into Pray ported factory castings. Last I heard, he was around a 9 month wait time on heads. and I think at that point, he just stopped taking new orders (for heads) in.
Apparently TSP heads they don't touch the guides or seats so it looks like its $1000 for them to fixture them up, run the CNC, maybe pressure test them (I hope) then put some springs on. I haven't been able to confirm that they do anything else to them. And I'm not talking about hand ported stuff, I can see why that cost an astronomical amount, but then again I could see where you would have to be charging a lot if you had to make a bunch of payments on all these brand new shiny CNC machines that were just sitting there doing nothing because you can't get raw material.

I think all these aftermarket parts are never really worth as much money as people pay for them, but as long as people are buying the price will just keep going up.
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Old 02-26-2021, 09:22 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by cmitchell17 View Post
Yeah I don't understand why it costs so much for porting stock heads, I mean unless there is more set up time that I don't know about it doesn't make sense once they've got their CNC process.

Also I think you're still going to have to wait on aftermarket castings from most companies as well since they are going to stock them as cast and have to take time in finishing them.
Basic port work doesn't cost that much...which is what you get with TSP oem port program along with upgraded springs.

Prays heads are completely rebuilt from the ground up. New seats, guides, valves, spring kit, and whatever stage port you opt for. As Dan mentioned a lot of cost is in using good valves and the labor to rebuild the heads. However when he is done you have a product that has been proven to best most of the aftermarket castings. What you still don't get with OEM is a thicker deck like aftermarket which may be more important on a FI build. Again as Dan mentioned Brett is back logged on orders. You likely wouldn't see anything from him until next year. You might look at Frankenstein or Advanced Inductions for OEM porting or CID for a aftermarket casting.
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Old 02-26-2021, 09:26 AM   #26
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Apparently TSP heads they don't touch the guides or seats so it looks like its $1000 for them to fixture them up, run the CNC, maybe pressure test them (i hope) then put some springs on. I haven't been able to confirm that they do anything else to them.
5 angle valve job and milling

get a quote, from your local machine shop, for a 5 angle (not just a single 45* cut) valve job on 16 valves and to mill the heads .030"

then go out and price how much a cnc machine is.


then do math.
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Old 02-26-2021, 09:27 AM   #27
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What you still don't get with OEM is a thicker deck like aftermarket which may be more important on a FI build.
can we not talk about that? k thanks.
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Old 02-26-2021, 09:29 AM   #28
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can we not talk about that? k thanks.
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