[Chub2000]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I agree if they are way under trade in for your car then that dealer is a scum dealer. If they are marking up the new car over MSRP, again, scum dealer. That doesn't make all chevy dealers scum. I see you are in Baltimore. It doesn't suprise me that you are finding this issue. My experience is to stay away from big cities when car shoping. While Im sure that doesnt instantly make you a scum dealer, it sure seems like you have a better chance of finding one in or near a big city. Before I even approach a sales guy on a car like the ZL1 1LE I call and find out if they are marked up over MSRP. If so, that dealer's chance for my business ends there. I laugh every time I see the yellow 2015 ZL1 sitting on a lot at a chevy dealer near Harrisburg. It used to set in the showroom with a mark-up on it. Now it's on the lot well below the MSRP and still sitting. I would assume because most people looking for a car like that are buying the gen6 now.

I agree with you. Im sure u will find a fair dealer eventually.
Its unfortunate these chevy dealers seem to think the zl1 1le is as rare are a Ford GT.

[nasbagoat]

I have worked at a dealer for the last 10 years, like any business there are people and policies and ineffective tech that can ruin your experience.

More often than not customers have the perception that a dealership is trying to steal from them even if that is not the case. People act like a dealership and its employees are criminal for trying to make a profit. Customers also don't care that we need to make a larger profit than a used lot/local service provider/jiffy lube, because we have to pay for our beautiful facilities/training/gm standards compliance. People cant see or hold the things they get for paying a bit more for dealer service so they go right to calling us overpriced. Did you know after expenses 3-4% net profit is good performance for a dealer? As a result they make no effort to be a good customer. People are quick to whining and bitching, but lets be real this is one of the few local industries left with negotiations.

You may not believe me when I tell you that working for a dealer has taught me a lot about being a customer anywhere you buy goods or services. I have learned and employed skills that have helped me get the things I want as a customer that you don't get when you are negative.

Being friendly, informed and reasonable will get you far. Yes. There are times that this wont work, and if they don't want to be reasonable and don't want your sale that's fine. Your money doesn't entitle you to anything, find someone else who does want your sale. Its not like you are short on choices for sales and service providers.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it takes 2 to tango, and you can do a lot yourself to make your dealership experience better. Dealerships have been trying to battling this negative perception people have about them for a long time. The truth is sometimes customers suck too.

OP sounds like you were very intelligent to recognize a bad deal when you saw it. Sounds like whoever was helping you wanted his cake and to eat it too or didn't want your business otherwise. If they refused a reasonable counter offer then its their loss, I'm sure you can find what you are looking for, your expectations are reasonable at 32 and MSRP.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by nasbagoat

I have worked at a dealer for the last 10 years, like any business there are people and policies and ineffective tech that can ruin your experience.

More often than not customers have the perception that a dealership is trying to steal from them even if that is not the case. People act like a dealership and its employees are criminal for trying to make a profit. Customers also don't care that we need to make a larger profit than a used lot/local service provider/jiffy lube, because we have to pay for our beautiful facilities/training/gm standards compliance. Did you know after expenses 3-4% net profit is good performance for a dealer? As a result they
make no effort to be a good customer. People are quick to whining and bitching, but lets be real this is one of the few local industries left with negotiations.

You may not believe me when I tell you that working for a dealer has taught me a lot about being a customer anywhere you buy goods or services. I have learned and employed skills that have helped me get the things I want as a customer that you don't get when you are negative.

Being friendly, informed and reasonable will get you far. Yes. There are times that this wont work, and if they don't want to be reasonable and don't want your sale that's fine. Your money doesn't entitle you to anything, find someone else who does want your sale. Its not like you are short on choices for sales and service providers.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it takes 2 to tango, and you can do a lot yourself to make your dealership experience better. Dealerships have been trying to battling this negative perception people have about them for a long time. The truth is customers suck too.

OP sounds like you were very intelligent to recognize a bad deal when you saw it. Sounds like whoever was helping you wanted his cake and to eat it too or didn't want your business otherwise. If they refused a reasonable counter offer then its their loss, I'm sure you can find what you are looking for, your expectations are reasonable at 32 and MSRP.

Sounds like a good justification for getting rid of the legacy dealer concept. I want to know the lowest price that they can sell for, no ridiculous stepped levels and tiers.

[Chub2000]

Originally Posted by nasbagoat

I have worked at a dealer for the last 10 years, like any business there are people and policies and ineffective tech that can ruin your experience.

More often than not customers have the perception that a dealership is trying to steal from them even if that is not the case. People act like a dealership and its employees are criminal for trying to make a profit. Customers also don't care that we need to make a larger profit than a used lot/local service provider/jiffy lube, because we have to pay for our beautiful facilities/training/gm standards compliance. Did you know after expenses 3-4% net profit is good performance for a dealer? As a result they
make no effort to be a good customer. People are quick to whining and bitching, but lets be real this is one of the few local industries left with negotiations.

You may not believe me when I tell you that working for a dealer has taught me a lot about being a customer anywhere you buy goods or services. I have learned and employed skills that have helped me get the things I want as a customer that you don't get when you are negative.

Being friendly, informed and reasonable will get you far. Yes. There are times that this wont work, and if they don't want to be reasonable and don't want your sale that's fine. Your money doesn't entitle you to anything, find someone else who does want your sale. Its not like you are short on choices for sales and service providers.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it takes 2 to tango, and you can do a lot yourself to make your dealership experience better. Dealerships have been trying to battling this negative perception people have about them for a long time. The truth is customers suck too.

OP sounds like you were very intelligent to recognize a bad deal when you saw it. Sounds like whoever was helping you wanted his cake and to eat it too or didn't want your business otherwise. If they refused a reasonable counter offer then its their loss, I'm sure you can find what you are looking for, your expectations are reasonable at 32 and MSRP.

I understand the dealer has to and deserves to earn a profit. I only wanted the real wholesale price for my trade and to pay msrp before factory incentives for the new car.

[nasbagoat]

As I said, your expectations are very reasonable. If you countered with 32 and MSRP and they didn't even entertain it then talk to a sales manager, if its still no go then take your business elsewhere. You will find what you are looking for.


"I hate chevy dealers"

I make a living helping people maintain their vehicles, yes I do it for a profit, but no I'm not a snake. When you dealer bash so generally you are participating in negative smearing that effects the lives of over a million people in this country just trying to make a living.

[Chazzz]

Many new car dealers earn their bad reputation. IE huge dealer fees, bumping up interest rates several points, trying to force all sorts of dealer add ons at ridiculous prices, pushing sometimes unnecessary gap insurances, and trying to steal your trade are some of the more common examples of the game most dealers will play. The internet has made things even worse as many dealers will advertise a price with every available rebate and hide it in the fine print to bait and switch just to get you to come in. Your best and sometimes only defense with these practices is to make sure you are an educated and well informed buyer. Apologies if I am offending anyone working in the business that disagrees, and I am aware dealers need to make a profit to keep the lights on, but practices like these tend to take things a bit too far and is it any wonder customers get a bad taste in their mouth towards all car dealers in general. Thankfully, there are plenty of options so by all means educate yourself, deal hard, and NEVER be afraid to get up and walk out!

[jaysonstuart]

Originally Posted by Chub2000

It appears there is something wrong with my site. Thank you for letting me know. Try this one Mr. Cool www.scores-baltimore.com

Hey Ronnie Mund's favorite place! Oh and JD blew his whole tax refund at Scores one year.....

(Stern show references for anyone that doesn't get my comments)

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by nasbagoat

I have worked at a dealer for the last 10 years, like any business there are people and policies and ineffective tech that can ruin your experience.

More often than not customers have the perception that a dealership is trying to steal from them even if that is not the case. People act like a dealership and its employees are criminal for trying to make a profit. Customers also don't care that we need to make a larger profit than a used lot/local service provider/jiffy lube, because we have to pay for our beautiful facilities/training/gm standards compliance. People cant see or hold the things they get for paying a but more for dealer service so they go right to calling us overpriced. Did you know after expenses 3-4% net profit is good performance for a dealer? As a result they make no effort to be a good customer. People are quick to whining and bitching, but lets be real this is one of the few local industries left with negotiations.

You may not believe me when I tell you that working for a dealer has taught me a lot about being a customer anywhere you buy goods or services. I have learned and employed skills that have helped me get the things I want as a customer that you don't get when you are negative.

Being friendly, informed and reasonable will get you far. Yes. There are times that this wont work, and if they don't want to be reasonable and don't want your sale that's fine. Your money doesn't entitle you to anything, find someone else who does want your sale. Its not like you are short on choices for sales and service providers.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it takes 2 to tango, and you can do a lot yourself to make your dealership experience better. Dealerships have been trying to battling this negative perception people have about them for a long time. The truth is customers suck too.

OP sounds like you were very intelligent to recognize a bad deal when you saw it. Sounds like whoever was helping you wanted his cake and to eat it too or didn't want your business otherwise. If they refused a reasonable counter offer then its their loss, I'm sure you can find what you are looking for, your expectations are reasonable at 32 and MSRP.

Sounds like a cop out from a bad dealer. Ive been in the service business a very long time. We made lousy customers into goods ones many times by working hard to change their perception. With what Im reading above, I can already see that I most likely wouldn't want to do business where you work.

[Glen e]

I too have been in the car biz for 40 years and seen it all.....I don’t know why everyone gets upset at their antics, it’s to be expected when everyone is on commission. And some people are stupid enuf to pay it. Many feel they gotta try.....

Just say no. I have bought 4 new cars from dealers I don’t know in the last 5 years , all went well once I politely informed them AT THE START that I was not gonna pay for rape or silly add ons......I got that agreement with the SALES MANAGER and then he turned me over to a sales guy. One dealer wanted 10k extra for his vette. I told him “good for you! I hope you get it, but not from me...”....He agreed and we parted ways.

Don’t let it freak you out, just say no and if they continue their antics, leave, there are 3000 Chevy dealers out there and as said above, many are good and don’t play games.

But my god, don’t let a dealer spoil your day, it’s just Business.....where the business model includes “negotiated pricing”.....

[nasbagoat]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Sounds like a cop out from a bad dealer. Ive been in the service business a very long time. We made lousy customers into goods ones many times by working hard to change their perception. With what Im reading above, I can already see that I most likely wouldn't want to do business where you work.

Sounds like judgement without knowing anything about me. No cop out, my dealer like all have good and bad eggs. I guess you don't buy into my desire to humanize and give perspective from the other side. There are good people out there in the industry and it saddens me to see people make sweeping generalizations about the rest of us. You are absolutely right about beating peoples perceptions with good service, it is the only things that works. Sometimes you just cant beat it, but we try our best.

Originally Posted by Glen e

I too have been in the car biz for 40 years and seen it all.....I don’t know why everyone gets upset at their antics, it’s to be expected when everyone is on commission. And some people are stupid enuf to pay it. Many feel they gotta try.....

Just say no. I have bought 4 new cars from dealers I don’t know in the last 5 years , all went well once I politely informed them AT THE START that I was not gonna pay for rape or silly add ons......I got that agreement with the SALES MANAGER and then he turned me over to a sales guy. One dealer wanted 10k extra for his vette. I told him “good for you! I hope you get it, but not from me...”....He agreed and we parted ways.

Don’t let it freak you out, just say no and if they continue their antics, leave, there are 3000 Chevy dealers out there and as said above, many are good and don’t play games.

But my god, don’t let a dealer spoil your day, it’s just Business.....where the business model includes “negotiated pricing”.....

This guy gets it.

[nasbagoat]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Sounds like a good justification for getting rid of the legacy dealer concept. I want to know the lowest price that they can sell for, no ridiculous stepped levels and tiers.

You could be right, the legacy dealer concept gets harder and harder every year.

Originally Posted by Chazzz

Many new car dealers earn their bad reputation. IE huge dealer fees, bumping up interest rates several points, trying to force all sorts of dealer add ons at ridiculous prices, pushing sometimes unnecessary gap insurances, and trying to steal your trade are some of the more common examples of the game most dealers will play. The internet has made things even worse as many dealers will advertise a price with every available rebate and hide it in the fine print to bait and switch just to get you to come in. Your best and sometimes only defense with these practices is to make sure you are an educated and well informed buyer. Apologies if I am offending anyone working in the business that disagrees, and I am aware dealers need to make a profit to keep the lights on, but practices like these tend to take things a bit too far and is it any wonder customers get a bad taste in their mouth towards all car dealers in general. Thankfully, there are plenty of options so by all means educate
yourself, deal hard, and NEVER be afraid to get up and walk out!

Things used to be so much simpler. A car cost x and you sell it for y equaling Z profit. That's not how it works anymore, people are so determined to get the lowest price that those kinds of things had to be invented for a dealer to hold any profit. Sales depts. are usually net negative on new car sales these days. You sell a car and pay the salesperson and you end up $100 negative, yes later on there is some money to made on the back end if you hit your volume numbers. That's why dealers got away from kbb trade and on wholesale trade, extra points on the loan in F&I, bogus fees. Its all a reaction to the things stated above.

[nasbagoat]

I am not trying to make excuses for antics and deceptive practices that are out there, but there are good people out there too. Idk, I probably picked the wrong venue to express my view in a losing battle.

[Glen e]

Originally Posted by nasbagoat

I am not trying to make excuses for antics and deceptive practices that are out there, but there are good people out there too. Idk, I probably picked the wrong venue to express my view in a losing battle.

You’re fine… And correct… Back in the 40’s- 50s our parents set this business model up to be a negotiation venue. However people want to negotiate but they don’t want to do you want to negotiate back… So the dealer starts lowest possible to judge your stupidity, knowing you’re going to get them later on when you counter. It’s the basic KARRISS school of negotiating.

Dealers would be more than happy to go to one price system if the public would accept it. However they won’t. They still want to haggle on their trade, with packages etc. And one of the reasons the Tesla model (and APPL) works out well as there’s absolutely no negotiation for anything.

But the current dealer model is going away. Slowly. Everybody in the industry knows it. You will be left with getting your car from Internet, delivered by Carvana, and Walmart/AMZN with regional service. And there will be no negotiation, all 20 years from now. JMO....

[Chazzz]

Manufacturers can also play a big role in forcing a buyers hand by at times passing on to dealers large hidden incentives that the dealer then has the option to either keep as additional profit or to pass on to the customer. Then there is additional factory to dealer incentives when a dealer hits their magic sales numbers. Some volume dealers will often pass this on to their customers to continue to hit expected sales numbers. If not this can amount to huge profits, and a loser deal on paper can end up a big winner when all is said and done. It all makes for a situation where the customer has to literally beat a dealer up to the point of getting asked to leave just to know if the deal is fair and the dealer is truly all in. I love cars and have a huge passion for them, unfortunately the way the business can operate often makes for the potential of regret and buyers remorse.