[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by c4racer

Mazda3 is completely different car from a Mazda6. It handles quite well and is very agile with great steering feel and feedback from a very well done chassis - especially the 2020+ refresh.
Very similar in scope to a Camaro RS from a driving point of view.
Agree the motor is lame - but to me so is the V6 in the Camaro.

Well Mazda6 and Camaro are actually closer in size. Mazda3 is closer in size(mainly length) as a Corvette.

You can't really say that it's a sporty car with a straight face when it actually went back from multi-link IRS to torsion beam rear suspension. This is a step-up in terms of practicality - the rear legroom for the last gen Mazda3 is not very good compared to competitors like Civic(sat in both once when I was with a car-shopping friend) - but handling-wise I would think there are compromises. Again, less sporty, more luxury and comfort.

Mazda was once known as a sporty brand, but there are many signs that they are shifting away from that. They called their own Mazdaspeed brand "childish" and recently killed it off altogether. Nowadays I actually think Honda is better at the sporty business than Mazda, though the interior isn't quite as refined on Honda's.

The V6 in the Camaro is only lame because the whole "V8 or not real pony" thing. In a vacuum, I would take it over the 2.5T for a sporty engine any day. The 2.5T automatically upshifts(which is another thing I should mention - 2.5T and/or AWD is only available with an auto trans on Mazda3, while a V6 Camaro can be had with a stick shift) at 5.5k RPM when floored because it runs out of breath after that, while the V6 will happily sing to 7000 RPM. To think people laugh at the OHV V8 for "lOw ReDlInE"...

Anyway, Camaro V6 goes up against an Ecoboost Mustang and maybe a BRZ, while a Mazda3 hatch goes up against a Civic hatch and Veloster. Different animals, different audience.

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Yeah 8.1 with the base 2.5 liter engine. If you go to the top of the line 3 turbo you can get it down to 5.7 seconds.

Camaro V6 is still 5 seconds - with the turbo 4 it’s 5.4 seconds

I think the 2.5 NA is a little faster than that? Probably in mid and low 7's. 8.1 sounds like the 2.0 base engine which is very gutless.

But yeah any Camaro will spank it pretty good, or really any not-so-hot hatch.

[Number 3]

First Mazda interiors are outstanding. They are trying to move into near luxury and it shows. We cross shopped the CX5 with the Cadillac XT4 (which we ended up leasing). The Mazda interior was not lacking compared to the Cadillac.

Now cross shopping a FWD hot hatch and a Camaro is a bit of a stretch as the Mazda isn’t even close to the hottest of hot hatches. There a plenty of those that would give an L4 or V6 Camaro a run. Honda, Subaru, VW all have hotter hatches.

But to my point for years, GM needs to step up their interiors in a very big way, design, execution and materials. One example was the discontinued Cadillac XTS. Top to bottom on the IP you had 6 different materials and colors. More was NOT better.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by Number 3

But to my point for years, GM needs to step up their interiors in a very big way, design, execution and materials. One example was the discontinued Cadillac XTS. Top to bottom on the IP you had 6 different materials and colors. More was NOT better.

The 2021 Escalade interior looks much better in reviews, not just the large screen but also in terms of material choices and design. Have you seen it in person? Hopefully this is only GM's first big step in this direction.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Number 3

First Mazda interiors are outstanding. They are trying to move into near luxury and it shows. We cross shopped the CX5 with the Cadillac XT4 (which we ended up leasing). The Mazda interior was not lacking compared to the Cadillac.

Now cross shopping a FWD hot hatch and a Camaro is a bit of a stretch as the Mazda isn’t even close to the hottest of hot hatches. There a plenty of those that would give an L4 or V6 Camaro a run. Honda, Subaru, VW all have hotter hatches.

But to my point for years, GM needs to step up their interiors in a very big way, design, execution and materials. One example was the discontinued Cadillac XTS. Top to bottom on the IP you had 6 different materials and colors. More was NOT better.

I am alright with better interior but that comes with a cost. Mazda in general is known to be more expensive than its competitors. Part of it is naturally because they are a smaller company and thus doesn't have the same economy of scales as Toyota or GM, but even a base Mazda3's interior is nicer than a Civic's/Elantra's. Nicer interior also adds a lot of weight which isn't good for performance cars. That would shift a sports car towards a Grand Tourer.

IMO GM is getting better, especially if you look at the Corvette. C7 is a huge step-up compared to C6. As for the Camaro, again, the interior of its direct competitors are just as rough, but that's also how you can get a V8 sports car for so cheap while if you spend the money on good interior, you only gets some turbocharged 4-cylinder engines.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

I am alright with better interior but that comes with a cost. Mazda in general is known to be more expensive than its competitors. Part of it is naturally because they are a smaller company and thus doesn't have the same economy of scales as Toyota or GM, but even a base Mazda3's interior is nicer than a Civic's/Elantra's. Nicer interior also adds a lot of weight which isn't good for performance cars. That would shift a sports car towards a Grand Tourer.

IMO GM is getting better, especially if you look at the Corvette. C7 is a huge step-up compared to C6. As for the Camaro, again, the interior of its direct competitors are just as rough, but that's also how you can get a V8 sports car for so cheap while if you spend the money on good interior, you only gets some turbocharged 4-cylinder engines.

Well if you spend $75,000 on a Camaro you deserve more than the interior that comes in a $30,000 Camaro. Don’t equate an expensive interior with a performance degradation. We’re talking a few pounds at the most.

I agree on the C8. I haven’t been inside one yet but looks are encouraging with the exception of the single row of buttons.

But go look at the CT4 and 5. Nothing at all special in the inside. Nice, yes but anyone in the industry doing benchmarking on the new Cadillacs isn’t losing sleep.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Well if you spend $75,000 on a Camaro you deserve more than the interior that comes in a $30,000 Camaro. Don’t equate an expensive interior with a performance degradation. We’re talking a few pounds at the most.

I agree on the C8. I haven’t been inside one yet but looks are encouraging with the exception of the single row of buttons.

But go look at the CT4 and 5. Nothing at all special in the inside. Nice, yes but anyone in the industry doing benchmarking on the new Cadillacs isn’t losing sleep.

A $75k Camaro is the problem, not the interior that doesn’t match with it.

In 2002 an SLP SS Z28 was $32k. Fully loaded top of the line Camaro with the best performance from the factory at the time.

It was still behind even an entry level Corvette in terms of all around performance and luxury.

Now, the ZL1 1LE blows away anything below a C7 Z06 as far as performance is concerned. I’ve never agreed with this. I thought the 5th Gen Z28 was where they should have stopped taking the Camaro. Not because I didn’t want to see these performance numbers, I didn’t want to see the price go through the roof. Camaro. This is part of the problem.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Well if you spend $75,000 on a Camaro you deserve more than the interior that comes in a $30,000 Camaro. Don’t equate an expensive interior with a performance degradation. We’re talking a few pounds at the most.



I agree on the C8. I haven’t been inside one yet but looks are encouraging with the exception of the single row of buttons.



But go look at the CT4 and 5. Nothing at all special in the inside. Nice, yes but anyone in the industry doing benchmarking on the new Cadillacs isn’t losing sleep.

Again, you missed my point. Name a car that can keep up with the performance of the ZL1 1LE that has a nice interior for the same money. I am waiting.

An M4 will have a better interior, but a ZL1 1LE will run circles around it on a track. That's why most people buy a ZL1 1LE anyway.

Performance, interior, good price. Pick two.

It's not like a $70k Mustang/Charger have great interior, either. Those are the direct competitors to the Camaro.

[IMadeYouReadThis]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Again, you missed my point. Name a car that can keep up with the performance of the ZL1 1LE that has a nice interior for the same money. I am waiting.

An M4 will have a better interior, but a ZL1 1LE will run circles around it on a track. That's why most people buy a ZL1 1LE anyway.

Performance, interior, good price. Pick two.

It's not like a $70k Mustang/Charger have great interior, either. Those are the direct competitors to the Camaro.

The Mustang Premium has a outstanding interior.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by IMadeYouReadThis

The Mustang Premium has a outstanding interior.

I don't know, I sat in my friend's GT PP1 before, and there was a GT premium on the lot, too. They are about the same level in terms of material and finish compared to the Camaro.

I like the full digital instrument panel, I will give it that, but otherwise it's not exactly luxury.

[CamaroWinz]

Mazda has been driving toward the luxury end of the market for a few years, now. Their interiors are exceptional - and I own 2 Audis and a VW.

Performance-wise, they're merely aspirational. The chassis on the 3 is excellent but even with the 2.5 turbo the 3 is still a distant 2nd place to the GTI. In fact, way back in '08 I was looking for a daily driver to replace my Charger R/T and test drove the Mazda 3. I thought it was a terrific little car and probably would have bought it - except, on the way home, I stopped at the local VW dealer and drive a Mk5 GTI. It was literally night and day. I bought the VW on the spot. To this day, it's the best handling car I've ever owned.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Again, you missed my point. Name a car that can keep up with the performance of the ZL1 1LE that has a nice interior for the same money. I am waiting.

An M4 will have a better interior, but a ZL1 1LE will run circles around it on a track. That's why most people buy a ZL1 1LE anyway.

Performance, interior, good price. Pick two.

It's not like a $70k Mustang/Charger have great interior, either. Those are the direct competitors to the Camaro.

Sorry I get your point but you are clearly missing mine.

You are excusing the Camaro’s interior simply because you think you are getting “value” for the performance.

If you are shopping at that price point, not make or brand, the Camaro falls flat. For example a BMW M4.

It’s not just the Camaro. Look at the new Silverado. Great interior for a $30,000 work truck. Load it up to $65,000 and then compare it to the Ram which has near luxury car trim.

You don’t have to pick Two, for mere dollars you can have all 3. The performance is the big bucks.

Put it this way. If you are buying a $69,000 Camaro would you pay $1,000 more to have an AWESOME interior to go with it? I would.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Well if you spend $75,000 on a Camaro you deserve more than the interior that comes in a $30,000 Camaro. Don’t equate an expensive interior with a performance degradation. We’re talking a few pounds at the most.

"Deserve" shows individual preference, not universal truth.

It's not about the insignificant weight or performance compromises at all. Could be it's more about how you see yourself and the character of (in this example) the top-performance Camaro.

Originally Posted by Number 3

You don’t have to pick Two, for mere dollars you can have all 3. The performance is the big bucks.

"Having it all" has never resonated with me. Having all I need or want is not the same thing.

At the $70k price level I'd be fine with essentially the same interior that comes on less expensive trims. See, it'd really be no different than if I was starting with an LT1 or a 1SS and spending $30k or so building it up toward ZL1 1LE capabilities. Where I wouldn't put a dime into "upgrading" the interior for a more upscale appearance or whatever . . . though I would be strongly tempted to fit it with a real handbrake lever.

Put it this way. If you are buying a $69,000 Camaro would you pay $1,000 more to have an AWESOME interior to go with it? I would.

I wouldn't, not the way I'm reading "AWESOME" to mean here.


Norm

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Sorry I get your point but you are clearly missing mine.

You are excusing the Camaro’s interior simply because you think you are getting “value” for the performance.

If you are shopping at that price point, not make or brand, the Camaro falls flat. For example a BMW M4.

It’s not just the Camaro. Look at the new Silverado. Great interior for a $30,000 work truck. Load it up to $65,000 and then compare it to the Ram which has near luxury car trim.

You don’t have to pick Two, for mere dollars you can have all 3. The performance is the big bucks.

Put it this way. If you are buying a $69,000 Camaro would you pay $1,000 more to have an AWESOME interior to go with it? I would.

What kind of nice are we talking about for $1000 more anyway? Camaro's interior features are more than enough for a 2SS. Softer plastic? Maybe?

A M4 is a lot slower compared to a ZL1 1LE, while SS is a lot cheaper than the M4 so the "worse" interior is excusable.

That MotorTrend review of M4 vs. Camaro even mentioned it. The M4 they had costs WAY more than the Camaro SS they had and it still has cloth seats. They didn't mind the cloth seats in terms of comfort, but I don't see anyone dumping on BMW for cloth seats at 70+k.

And if you are talking about German cars, their options stack up quick. If you want to option a nice interior, you are not looking at $1000. 20 grand is more like it.

For a truck then I get it, you want comfort and if GM is lacking there then yeah, they need to work it out, but complaining about the interior of a pony car is just odd IMO. They all suck. If you are looking at a M4 then none of the ponies will tickle your fancy in terms of interior.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Again, you missed my point. Name a car that can keep up with the performance of the ZL1 1LE that has a nice interior for the same money. I am waiting.

An M4 will have a better interior, but a ZL1 1LE will run circles around it on a track. That's why most people buy a ZL1 1LE anyway.

Performance, interior, good price. Pick two.

It's not like a $70k Mustang/Charger have great interior, either. Those are the direct competitors to the Camaro.

STOP! I get YOUR point. You are excusing GM from putting an interior in the Camaro that matches the price because of performance.

Please hear me. You CAN have all 3. Excusing GM for cheaping out on the interior of a $70,000 car, pickup truck or luxury car is not excusable.

I’m suggesting GM get its game in and you are defending GM because the ZL1 is awesome, which it is.

So to be even more clear, Mazda has a wonderful, near Audi interior in a $22,000 hatchback. Can’t the base Camaro at $30,000 do equally as well?