[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by samsumon

It's 100% what I said, and i'm glad you agree... Now what is ticking me off is people saying two things:

"Do you even own he car"

"If you're car is fine then why are you bitching"..




Ok lets settle that,

1- No I don't own a 2016 Camaro... But the 45k I put to the side for the car that is suppose to be built NEXT week says I will.. Which leads me to my next point.

2- EVEN if I get the car, and the vehicle is a spit image replica of perfection... I WOULD STILL BE JUST AS ANGRY because as a part of a community we should GET ANGRY for the others.. How are people missing that WE saved this companies life while they, alongside many other companies took advantage of it.. My car could be PERFECT, but if the guy next to me has issues, I'll be angered with his situation knowing what he's going to go through. Knowing how crappy it is to get things fixed, and fixed properly.


We aren't talking about part defects that engineers simply could not foreshadow. That is understandable. That's what we have recalls for.... We are talking about QUALITY control issues that are VISUALLY obvious.... Now add the the rest..

That is my issue. That I STAND with the Camaro community. But it seems to be that certain members on here have the mentality of, "mine works, that's all that matters. mistakes happen oh well".. Or, "Be grateful you even get a car like this for that price"..

It's that constant low level mentality and expectation that allowed these companies to get away with their crap for so long. It's turning around and saying, NO, you CANT deliver this to us, NO, we DON'T accept this.. Explain why german cars of lesser value still have better fit and finish? Just feel the buttons how they don't wiggle in their casing.. It's the little things.

People keep saying, the car starts at 23k, you get what you pay for.. Again, at 23k I expect cheap interior.. But I EXPECT the interior to LIGN UP perfectly.. I EXPECT the paint to be uniformed and the ENTIRE car painted.

Now at 45k, I expect the SAME thing only leather and fancier technology. People need to stop settling for that mentality.



I'm sorry but it's 2016. Building a car is not a modern miracle like some old school people here claim it out to be. It's a proven, engineered, process.

can you point us to the statistics on cars with issues vs not that you are basing your statements on?

Originally Posted by Jeb114

My brother worked for GM when the plant was in Linden NJ. He was a line worker. His statement was if your car was built after lunch on Friday, or between midnight and 6 am, good luck to you. and I said why his answer, Friday lunch was at the bar or in the back of the plant passing the bottle, and after Midnight the supervisors were all asleep in there office, and the horseplay began,

thought it should be mentioned that plant closed around 10 years ago.

[xmonger]

Originally Posted by samsumon

People keep saying, the car starts at 23k, you get what you pay for.. Again, at 23k I expect cheap interior.. But I EXPECT the interior to LIGN UP perfectly.. I EXPECT the paint to be uniformed and the ENTIRE car painted.

Now at 45k, I expect the SAME thing only leather and fancier technology. People need to stop settling for that mentality.



I'm sorry but it's 2016. Building a car is not a modern miracle like some old school people here claim it out to be. It's a proven, engineered, process.

Very true.

I think it was Deming that defined quality as "the absence of variance."

There is no reason a $20k car cannot have the same quality as a $50k car. Yes, the look and feel of materials, performance, etc. will be different; but everything should function as designed on every single vehicle coming off the line.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by xmonger

There is no reason a $20k car cannot have the same quality as a $50k car.

That has been the mission statement of Toyota and Honda since oh about 1975.

[Jeb114]

Originally Posted by Nicul15

can you point us to the statistics on cars with issues vs not that you are basing your statements on?





thought it should be mentioned that plant closed around 10 years ago.

Old habits die hard, I remember a news special about 5 years ago were a undercover news team filmed the day shift on lunch, in the back lot, at a Dodge plant, passing the bottle and passing the joint.
except
The Big Three automaker suspended two workers without pay for a month and outright fired 13 other employees in September 2010, after television station Fox 2 filmed the men drinking alcohol and smoking marijuana during their shift breaks over a period of several days.

At the time the video was aired, Scott Garberding, Chrysler's senior vice president of manufacturing, told the TV station, "I'm very, very disturbed about what I just saw in the video and I want to make it clear that we at Chrysler take it very seriously."

[samsumon]

Originally Posted by Nicul15

can you point us to the statistics on cars with issues vs not that you are basing your statements on?





thought it should be mentioned that plant closed around 10 years ago.

Statistics? No, I doubt GM will release a statement telling us how many cars had issues and then breaking down the issues.. I mean, why the hell would they? Just go read the forums and go see the cars in person. I still bought one knowing the knobs aren't set right and other loose ends. But I had a dream of owning one, and i will. Now if I take delivery of the car when it gets here is another story.

And a plant that closed 10 years ago means nothing.. You are kidding yourself if you think these cars on the 3rd shift are being built well. The scenario changes, the people don't, the attitudes don't....

Lets not kid ourselves, and I mean this with ALL due respect.. We aren't hiring skilled workers for automated tasks . 10 years ago it was an hourly paid job requiring no degree and the ability to function for 8 hours performing an automated task designed by an engineer to be mass produce capable.

10 years later they are individuals making 15-25 an hour doing the same exact task they were taught to do for 8 hours.. I'm not knocking anyone down, I'm just pointing the facts that the requirement for the job hasn't changed, just the people in the shoes.

Want to know the truth? this is a mundane task that requires almost no mental stimulation once you have trained your body to go with the motion. Ever see a bagger in the grocery store look stoned out of his eyes and without even looking down knows exactly where to put your food so it doesn't get crushed? Same thing. It's teaching a person a task they can perfect and mass produce..

That's where scientific research COMES in and SHOWS that if you make the working environment somewhere that the individual FEELS like he can't be automated and must actually perform to his best, then you get the best... You want low skilled workers to produce low skilled results, put them in the plant how they are now.. Want them to actually give two ****s about the car they are building, make their environment something they feel a sense of pride in and instill in them that pride. You do that by the COUNTLESS things mentioned in this thread.


Or do you think Google and Facebook just happen to have the worlds best worksites just to "please" their employees? They spend hundreds of millions of dollars making the grounds their workers work in to be something that makes you FEEL different and makes you PROUD to be working on what you're doing.. Is everyone going to be the same, no, but theres a good ****ing reason kids are taking lower paying jobs at Google than a competitor. And this is something I have first hand experience in...

I'm tired of people saying "it's ok for the knobs to not line up, its only a 25k car".
Or better yet,

"you buy this car for the engine and heritage".. Joke.

.. I just sat in a Honda Civic where every push button was perfect and the car even came with cameras on the side mirrors so you could see in the center dash a live feed of the side of the car before changing lanes..


And this was a 21k Civic

[fastball]

Originally Posted by samsumon

Statistics? No, I doubt GM will release a statement telling us how many cars had issues and then breaking down the issues.. I mean, why the hell would they? Just go read the forums and go see the cars in person. I still bought one knowing the knobs aren't set right and other loose ends. But I had a dream of owning one, and i will. Now if I take delivery of the car when it gets here is another story.

And a plant that closed 10 years ago means nothing.. You are kidding yourself if you think these cars on the 3rd shift are being built well. The scenario changes, the people don't, the attitudes don't....

Lets not kid ourselves, and I mean this with ALL due respect.. We aren't hiring skilled workers for automated tasks . 10 years ago it was an hourly paid job requiring no degree and the ability to function for 8 hours performing an automated task designed by an engineer to be mass produce capable.

10 years later they are individuals making 15-25 an hour doing the same exact task they were taught to do for 8 hours.. I'm not knocking anyone down, I'm just pointing the facts that the requirement for the job hasn't changed, just the people in the shoes.

Want to know the truth? this is a mundane task that requires almost no mental stimulation once you have trained your body to go with the motion. Ever see a bagger in the grocery store look stoned out of his eyes and without even looking down knows exactly where to put your food so it doesn't get crushed? Same thing. It's teaching a person a task they can perfect and mass produce..

That's where scientific research COMES in and SHOWS that if you make the working environment somewhere that the individual FEELS like he can't be automated and must actually perform to his best, then you get the best... You want low skilled workers to produce low skilled results, put them in the plant how they are now.. Want them to actually give two ****s about the car they are building, make their environment something they feel a sense of pride in and instill in them that pride. You do that by the COUNTLESS things mentioned in this thread.


Or do you think Google and Facebook just happen to have the worlds best worksites just to "please" their employees? They spend hundreds of millions of dollars making the grounds their workers work in to be something that makes you FEEL different and makes you PROUD to be working on what you're doing.. Is everyone going to be the same, no, but theres a good ****ing reason kids are taking lower paying jobs at Google than a competitor. And this is something I have first hand experience in...

I'm tired of people saying "it's ok for the knobs to not line up, its only a 25k car".
Or better yet,

"you buy this car for the engine and heritage".. Joke.

.. I just sat in a Honda Civic where every push button was perfect and the car even came with cameras on the side mirrors so you could see in the center dash a live feed of the side of the car before changing lanes..


And this was a 21k Civic

Wish this forum had a like button! Nothing more to add here.

[6spdhyperblue]

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[Ace01]

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