[newmoon]

The great thing about all of this is that it was so predictable. When the arguements went the other way and the ZL1 had the hp advantage it wasn't a problem, but now it is. Now with roll cages installed we see the same ok for Chevy, wrong for anyone else.

[TreedYou]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The GT500 is very dependent. It is track-dependent, prep-dependent, DA-dependent, etc. And apparently, it can only win when it is against cars that is has a huge advantage against AND on a track where it can exploit those advantages. So yes, this track did heavily favor the 500. There will be tracks where the Z51 will match it or beat it. And likewise, there will be tracks where the ZL1 will beat it. However in the same price range of $65K, the GT50 and GT350R will not be able to beat the Z51 or ZL1 on any track at all.

So pretty much Ford made 1 car that can win if it has a huge advantage but not all the time and not everywhere.

A supercharger adds weight too. So does huge brakes and big radiators. Are you saying the weight offset the performance gains? Because if so then that is a lame argument. Because you know what else added weight with absolutely no performance gains? the 2LT. And all the other $20K worth of options that came on the Z51 that was tested.

I love how you speak as if what you say are facts, I am glad that you are confident and are able to convince yourself that DA and track prep doesn't affect your preferred cars. Not even your delusion can't break the laws of physics..

And no, that's not what I am saying, where did you even read that from my posts?

And LOL at you not being able to post without mentioning a price.
If you can't afford the car don't get mad at it.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by TreedYou

Who is saying the C8 is a disappointment? that thing is a beast!
I mean the roll cage is just added quite a bit of weight no, to an already fat car to boot?

Newmoon did lol. Well specifically the Ring time. Lol.

[TreedYou]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Newmoon did lol. Well specifically the Ring time. Lol.

Well that doesn't make sense, I think we can agree to that.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

So are we now discounting every run made with a roll cage installed, that would include every prized Ring run layed down bu the Camaro and Vette correct? I remember the arguements in here that it was strictly for driver safety and offered no additional performance, in fact the added weight hurt it. I just want to make sure you are being clear and consistent with the criticism.

I'm discounting your "disappointment" and "losing shine" because the C8 base lost at VIR to the GT500. I am not discounting any times on anything.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by newmoon

The great thing about all of this is that it was so predictable. When the arguements went the other way and the ZL1 had the hp advantage it wasn't a problem, but now it is. Now with roll cages installed we see the same ok for Chevy, wrong for anyone else.

Nobody cares about the roll cage, or thinks it helped. It was mentioned to point out your painful hypocrisy in your defense of MT and what a great job they do testing cars the way the consumer buys them.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Nobody cares about the roll cage, or thinks it helped. It was mentioned to point out your painful hypocrisy in your defense of MT and what a great job they do testing cars the way the consumer buys them.

^This.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I can spin it like this had the Mustang gotten this unusual advantage as stated by MT this forum would be loosing its mind. Funny thing even with this advantage it still lost in the category it was designed to excel in to a 4 seat 4100 lb Mustang. Add in the disappointment with Ring times and the C8s shine is quickly fading.

What unusual advantage? The roll cage prepped gt500s? Or the extra 250 hp? You are a fanboy, so you're one of the delusional people we talk about when talking about fanboys who can't see how VIR Full favored a high hp car. Even Ford guys, and Ford tuners who aren't fanboys concede to that.

Btw No one cares or brought up the roll cage till the ford shills started talking about the "unfair" track spec alignment that the car is designed to accept.

It's shine is only fading to the gt500 fanboys who can't comprehend that a 760hp car beat a 495 hp by a second and hope for the c8 hype to die down.

The gt500 lost the thing it was designed to do, acceleration.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

The great thing about all of this is that it was so predictable. When the arguements went the other way and the ZL1 had the hp advantage it wasn't a problem, but now it is. Now with roll cages installed we see the same ok for Chevy, wrong for anyone else.

I cant speak for everyone in this forum but I compare cars that are similar in COST. The ZL1 and GT350 are similar in price. The C8 base model and GT500 are not similar in price yet I'm more impressed with the C8 and the way it performed. I could give a damn about the horsepower.

The C8 Z06 will be similar in price to the CFTP and it will probably be down over 150hp and it will beat the GT500 at anything and everything. Then you will be back to talking about how a 93k++ Mustang should be compared to Camaros and not Corvettes.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

Do you honestly think the results will be the same on a more common track like LS, streets of Willow, big Willow, and even VIR grand? VIR full has to be the fastest track out there, and you think a 495 hp car should of beat a 760 hp car with those straight Away’s.

Ofcourse he does, he doesn't get it.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by ChefBorOzzy

That's not what I said. Would people think a C7 Z51 would beat a GT500 around this track? Probably not. There's only so much a great platform can do for you if you're down a bunch of horsepower on a non technical track. It's not like the 760 hp was stuck in a 1970 Chevelle.

Agreed. Engine is in the back, I honestly don't think the c8 z51 beats a c7 GS at most tracks.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

So are we now discounting every run made with a roll cage installed, that would include every prized Ring run layed down bu the Camaro and Vette correct? I remember the arguements in here that it was strictly for driver safety and offered no additional performance, in fact the added weight hurt it. I just want to make sure you are being clear and consistent with the criticism.

I'm gonna call you out and say that nobody here made that argument.

Originally Posted by newmoon

The great thing about all of this is that it was so predictable. When the arguements went the other way and the ZL1 had the hp advantage it wasn't a problem, but now it is. Now with roll cages installed we see the same ok for Chevy, wrong for anyone else.

Cool made up story bro.

Originally Posted by TreedYou

I love how you speak as if what you say are facts, I am glad that you are confident and are able to convince yourself that DA and track prep doesn't affect your preferred cars. Not even your delusion can't break the laws of physics..

And no, that's not what I am saying, where did you even read that from my posts?

And LOL at you not being able to post without mentioning a price.
If you can't afford the car don't get mad at it.

Ok. When has the ZL1 in testing varied by almost a full second? When has any Camaro or Corvette varied by that much?

The 18 GT when it first came out was a mid 12. Then someone got 11.9 while others could not break into the 11s even with DRs and some damn good quality air. So it varied from 11.9 to 12.6. The GT500 was a 10.6 but then they couldn't get better than 11.3 and 11.5. Mustangs are extremely dependent. More so than any other car that I know of.

And for the record, you guys are the ones who keep making statements about how it ran X only because of the track and how it was hot in LV when they ran it and it'll do much better with blah blah blah. I'm saying exactly what you guys have been saying since that car all this time.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Nobody cares about the roll cage, or thinks it helped. It was mentioned to point out your painful hypocrisy in your defense of MT and what a great job they do testing cars the way the consumer buys them.

Originally Posted by minn19

^This.

^This x2

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by newmoon

So are we now discounting every run made with a roll cage installed, that would include every prized Ring run layed down bu the Camaro and Vette correct? I remember the arguements in here that it was strictly for driver safety and offered no additional performance, in fact the added weight hurt it. I just want to make sure you are being clear and consistent with the criticism.

You really don't get it, people only bring up the cage because you fanboys bring up the track alignment like it's something unfair.

The zl1 1le ring time was also done by Chevy not MT. Lots of ring prepped cars have roll cages. Look some up.