[ZRacerLE]

Looks like a hell of a deal.

[Evansa22]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Say this quietly as you may make some members very angry.

If that's the case, then I'm wrong. But according to what I saw when trying to build one, it was never shown so I had to assume it wasn't added in. I'll wait until I see one in a local dealer and will probably go in and check it out. It's so cal so definitely more likely to have higher adms. I'll get a picture of the sticker and post it up if/when I get one.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Say this quietly as you may make some members very angry.

Originally Posted by Evansa22

If that's the case, then I'm wrong. But according to what I saw when trying to build one, it was never shown so I had to assume it wasn't added in. I'll wait until I see one in a local dealer and will probably go in and check it out. It's so cal so definitely more likely to have higher adms. I'll get a picture of the sticker and post it up if/when I get one.

Then their online configurator is flat out lying. I've literally just built a base GT500 and the summary has an explicit statement to the contrary, it isn't something I concluded or inferred. Not that $1300 would be worth arguing so much about when a vehicle costs well north of $70K...

[Wild One]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Say this quietly as you may make some members very angry.

Why would it make them angry?

[BlaqWhole]

Perhaps it was a typo. Or perhaps...some people are getting charged for that fee twice.

What I like about all this is that the Vette is at such a level of performance that now just beating any of them in anything makes the competition look good. No matter what the stats are of anything else, if it can compete with the entry level vette with a Z51 package then it must be a really good car. Here, the top tier Mustang costs $94K and has 760 supercharged HP and CF components and all this tech attached to it. And all that matters is that it can compete with the lowest level NA 495 HP Vette at $65K. And only around a track. Which again proves that dollar for dollar the only thing that can compete with Chevy is Chevy. Ford has nothing under $70K that can match the Vette at anything. And it just might turn out that even over $90K the GT500 can't beat a ZLE. Again, these are all cars that cost under $70K. And it is impressive when the competition has a $10K+ price hike, 110 more HP, still manages to lose at 3 different things, but can beat it a Vette in one thing. That's what the Ford guys are happy about. Being faster at 1 out of 4 things.

[ZRacerLE]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Perhaps it was a typo. Or perhaps...some people are getting charged for that fee twice.

What I like about all this is that the Vette is at such a level of performance that now just beating any of them in anything makes the competition look good. No matter what the stats are of anything else, if it can compete with the entry level vette with a Z51 package then it must be a really good car. Here, the top tier Mustang costs $94K and has 760 supercharged HP and CF components and all this tech attached to it. And all that matters is that it can compete with the lowest level NA 495 HP Vette at $65K. And only around a track. Which again proves that dollar for dollar the only thing that can compete with Chevy is Chevy. Ford has nothing under $70K that can match the Vette at anything. And it just might turn out that even over $90K the GT500 can't beat a ZLE. Again, these are all cars that cost under $70K. And it is impressive when the competition has a $10K+ price hike, 110 more HP, still manages to lose at 3 different things, but can beat it a Vette in one thing. That's what the Ford guys are happy about. Being faster at 1 out of 4 things.

It's a great thing how much Corvette has pushed so many performance brands and models.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Perhaps it was a typo. Or perhaps...some people are getting charged for that fee twice.

What I like about all this is that the Vette is at such a level of performance that now just beating any of them in anything makes the competition look good. No matter what the stats are of anything else, if it can compete with the entry level vette with a Z51 package then it must be a really good car. Here, the top tier Mustang costs $94K and has 760 supercharged HP and CF components and all this tech attached to it. And all that matters is that it can compete with the lowest level NA 495 HP Vette at $65K. And only around a track. Which again proves that dollar for dollar the only thing that can compete with Chevy is Chevy. Ford has nothing under $70K that can match the Vette at anything. And it just might turn out that even over $90K the GT500 can't beat a ZLE. Again, these are all cars that cost under $70K. And it is impressive when the competition has a $10K+ price hike, 110 more HP, still manages to lose at 3 different things, but can beat it a Vette in one thing. That's what the Ford guys are happy about. Being faster at 1 out of 4 things.

You just cant understand that the Vette and the Mustang are not competitors, have not been since probably the 60s. One is a muscle/sport car the other is a lightweight mid engine exotic. The Camaro and the Challenger are the Mustang's competitors, the fact that many reviews say it can compete with the likes of a Porsche or Corvette is a testament of how good these pony cars have become, or how the once huge gap between the two has disappeared.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by newmoon

You just cant understand that the Vette and the Mustang are not competitors, have not been since probably the 60s. One is a muscle/sport car the other is a lightweight mid engine exotic. The Camaro and the Challenger are the Mustang's competitors, the fact that many reviews say it can compete with the likes of a Porsche or Corvette is a testament of how good these pony cars have become, or how the once huge gap between the two has disappeared.

Shelby is Ford's Corvette. Has been since before the first Camaro left the assembly line.

[ZRacerLE]

Originally Posted by newmoon

You just cant understand that the Vette and the Mustang are not competitors, have not been since probably the 60s. One is a muscle/sport car the other is a lightweight mid engine exotic. The Camaro and the Challenger are the Mustang's competitors, the fact that many reviews say it can compete with the likes of a Porsche or Corvette is a testament of how good these pony cars have become, or how the once huge gap between the two has disappeared.

Agree with this. Camaro and mustang used to not even be an option for me. Corvettes were the only affordable, high performance car that could corner and brake like a supercar. Not any more. Chevy got the trend started. Now the competition has entered the segment and we're seeing some real craziness. I'll keep saying it: come on Dodge, where are you??

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Shelby is Ford's Corvette. Has been since before the first Camaro left the assembly line.

I know you have said this many times in the past but I cant recall the Shelby ever needing to meet the bar set by the Corvette until the Camaro no longer had the advantage. 5th Gen there was never conversation about Shelby vs Corvette it was always Mustang vs Camaro. Going back even further SVT Mustangs were pitted against Camaro. The Corvette was on an island of own.

Here is a question if you are correct and the direct competitor to Shelby is the Corvette do you think any of the R&D and planning that went into the 5th and 6th Gen Shelbys were based on the Corvette performance at the time, or was it based on the Z28 and ZL1? If you can show me some proof that their target was the Vette or the Vette targeting the Shelby I'd love to see it.

[Rodan]

A typical Corvette buyer is probably not looking at Mustang GTs.

You can bet buyers considering the GT500 are looking at C8s... the same could probably be said about GT350/R and C7 Grand Sport.

[NW-99SS]

Interesting weekend!

Some curious posts:

GT500 and Vette owners won't track their cars.

Ford's own website is wrong about GG tax.

Martin is wrong about the history of Shelby taking aim at Corvettes even though he already posted it quite some time ago...1965 rings a bell here.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I know you have said this many times in the past but I cant recall the Shelby ever needing to meet the bar set by the Corvette until the Camaro no longer had the advantage. 5th Gen there was never conversation about Shelby vs Corvette it was always Mustang vs Camaro. Going back even further SVT Mustangs were pitted against Camaro. The Corvette was on an island of own.

Here is a question if you are correct and the direct competitor to Shelby is the Corvette do you think any of the R&D and planning that went into the 5th and 6th Gen Shelbys were based on the Corvette performance at the time, or was it based on the Z28 and ZL1? If you can show me some proof that their target was the Vette or the Vette targeting the Shelby I'd love to see it.

SVT came about because Shelby strayed away from the Ford camp for a while or Ford decided they didn't need the name. Not sure which was the trigger, but fact of the matter is, in the mid '80s - early '90s the two parted ways. Dodge Omni Shelby?

I can't speak definitively for who Ford targeted because I did not work in their competitor intel group (although I do know those guys...professional courtesy). But I can say how I would have informed the Ford Performance team if my office was in Dearborn instead of Warren. And I can speak for Gen 5 and Gen 6 Camaro as well as C7 and C8 Corvette and I know who was targeted at what level. My team provided the powertrain systems and performance intel on those targets.

My team very specifically told both Camaro and Corvette teams that M5 GT500 and M6 GT350 / GT500 were upping their game and looking to compete with top end Camaros by delivering Corvette level performance. And we also very specifically informed Corvette team that GT500 was aiming somewhere between Z06 and ZR1. This was based on the specs that we were aware of at the time. Some of those specs changed by the time GT500 came to market. They all changed for the better, probably due to Ford's CI people possibly getting better intel on C8 (Tremec).

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

And there you have it. Thank you for explaining it in simple terms. Maybe now he'll stop debating it just to disagree with me.

I never debated anything about the SS1LE with you, stop lying and trying to nut hug other people to act like they are backing you up.

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

If you're refering to me. Nothing I said was false. I said the run was a sh!tty example of what an automatic modded ZL1 should do. That's undeniable. If the stock ZL1 is an 11.2 car like stated. A half second slower is terrible! And if we're going by the 10.9 glory pass.

He was referring to me, because i'm such a Mustang lover

Originally Posted by Fraxum

Yes there have been a number of ZLE buyers disappointed by the ride and who sold thier ZLE. A number of them are sitting around. But if you do not track there is no point in buying the ZLE. The standard ZL1 is awesome on a race track and is an all day GT long distance cruiser. An iron fist in a velvet glove.

Truth, but there are plenty of ricer ZLE owners

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The sad thing is that Ford makes a product, limits the production so that it is difficult to obtain, the dealers then mark it up, not many people can actually buy the damn thing, and they go crazy about it. While they're on the sidelines cheering for a car that is near impossible to obtain, the Hellcats, Redeyes, ZL1s, and Z06s can all be had easily. It is stupid but that is the mentality among them. They'll be quick to talk about how much everyone wants a GT500. That stupidity is the reason why they get taken advantage of. And to top it all off, it's the GT guys who will never own one defending it. And even the GT350 guys. They defend it but refuse to pay even MSRP on the R. So what's that tell ya? With the R, these guys will negotiate for months on end or wait years to get one while others talk about how it's worth the markups. And then we gotta hear about how there will be plenty of GT500s at MSRP...yet the people saying that couldn't wait a little bit longer and decided to go with a discounted R instead. LOL!! And these guys don't even realize that by limiting the production, Ford is basically giving the dealerships the power to take advantage of people. And people who just want one soo bad that they'll pay extra give dealerships all the advantage too. The insanity is beyond comprehension.

I'm glad they defend it. because the more they do, the more it'll keep happening to them. And in a few years they'll be paying Z06 prices for a car that can't beat a ZL1 at everything. Oh wait, they're doing that now. LOL!!

Originally Posted by newmoon

You just cant understand that the Vette and the Mustang are not competitors, have not been since probably the 60s. One is a muscle/sport car the other is a lightweight mid engine exotic. The Camaro and the Challenger are the Mustang's competitors, the fact that many reviews say it can compete with the likes of a Porsche or Corvette is a testament of how good these pony cars have become, or how the once huge gap between the two has disappeared.

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Shelby is Ford's Corvette. Has been since before the first Camaro left the assembly line.

newmoonmartin