[GossipSquirrelJelena]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Look at that, I found another thing we have in common!

Ah man I’m sorry to hear that. I’ve been told it’s very hard to get by on that type of income.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

LOL, all these guys need to form a support group with each other. Every timme you make a post they can console each other on a group chat or something HAHAHAHA

Seriously tho. And AJ is (or claims to be) a SS owner...meanwhile he's talking down on SLE owners. Gotta love it.

Originally Posted by TreedYou

Ahhh so close!
i was all like, he's going to make a post without mentioning the price of the GT500... You know that they are all going to be sold out anyway right?
Most people who can buy a 70k+ car aren't concerned with your financial analysis.

You do understand that a $20K difference between cars is a HUGE gap right? Do you realize what can be done with $20K? Or to make it simple, a $20K difference between trims/options within even the same Make and Model is substantial. Or are you trying to argue that. I'm not talking about what people can afford. I'm talking about if the performance of the GT500 as compared to the ZLE makes the $20K worthwhile. As an example, the ZL1 and SS are worlds apart in performance. And that is only about a $10K difference in price when optioned similarly. Add $10K to that and you have a Z06. Or look at it this way, at a $13K difference, the GT350 non-R can even get close enough to a GT500 to see the license plate. So $20K would be a significant amount. The Camaro and Mustang are competing vehicles and historically have been priced similarly. So with an extra $20K there should be a huge gap in the performance. If the CF GT500 at $94K (MSRP without add-ons) can't absolutely annihilate the ZLE (which when optioned pretty heavily with unnecessary items can hit $74K) at everything then what exactly are you getting for that extra money?

Originally Posted by TreedYou

Everybody gets it, you HATE the GT500 with all your soul.
And I doubt the ZLE is going to keep up with the C8 Z51...

I do not hate the GT500. If I could find one at MSRP I would buy one for sure. So you're off your rocker if you think that. However these are things that are important when discussing the performance of a performance-built vehicle. If we were talking Lexus vs Infinity and the Lexus had $20K in upgrades over the Infinity then there would be a night and day difference between those cars. Or if you put a $$70K Sierra 1500 up against a $50K F-150 there would be a huge gap between those trucks. Or a $70K X5 against a $50K Explorer. So you can try to ignore it since it doesn't help your argument, but even a few of the Mustang guys have admitted that at the price of the CF GT500 it would have to really beat the ZLE.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by TreedYou

Ahhh so close!
i was all like, he's going to make a post without mentioning the price of the GT500... You know that they are all going to be sold out anyway right?
Most people who can buy a 70k+ car aren't concerned with your financial analysis.

Everybody gets it, you HATE the GT500 with all your soul.
And I doubt the ZLE is going to keep up with the C8 Z51...

Why wouldn't the ZLE keep up with the C8 Z51? I legit want to hear why you think that.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

Ah man I’m sorry to hear that. I’ve been told it’s very hard to get by on that type of income.

Ugh, the struggle is real man!!!

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You do understand that a $20K difference between cars is a HUGE gap right? Do you realize what can be done with $20K? Or to make it simple, a $20K difference between trims/options within even the same Make and Model is substantial. Or are you trying to argue that. I'm not talking about what people can afford. I'm talking about if the performance of the GT500 as compared to the ZLE makes the $20K worthwhile. As an example, the ZL1 and SS are worlds apart in performance. And that is only about a $10K difference in price when optioned similarly. Add $10K to that and you have a Z06. Or look at it this way, at a $13K difference, the GT350 non-R can even get close enough to a GT500 to see the license plate. So $20K would be a significant amount. The Camaro and Mustang are competing vehicles and historically have been priced similarly. So with an extra $20K there should be a huge gap in the performance. If the CF GT500 at $94K (MSRP without add-ons) can't absolutely annihilate the ZLE (which when optioned pretty heavily with unnecessary items can hit $74K) at everything then what exactly are you getting for that extra money?

A Shelby badge?

[GossipSquirrelJelena]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Ugh, the struggle is real man!!!

:l aughabove:

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

A Shelby badge?

And exhaust sound, lol!!

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by shaffe

They have been trying to make them harder to crack IIRC but the guys like Lund have seem to been able to crack them very quickly.

Lund worked with hp tuners on this one.

[TreedYou]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Seriously tho. And AJ is (or claims to be) a SS owner...meanwhile he's talking down on SLE owners. Gotta love it.

You do understand that a $20K difference between cars is a HUGE gap right? Do you realize what can be done with $20K? Or to make it simple, a $20K difference between trims/options within even the same Make and Model is substantial. Or are you trying to argue that. I'm not talking about what people can afford. I'm talking about if the performance of the GT500 as compared to the ZLE makes the $20K worthwhile. As an example, the ZL1 and SS are worlds apart in performance. And that is only about a $10K difference in price when optioned similarly. Add $10K to that and you have a Z06. Or look at it this way, at a $13K difference, the GT350 non-R can even get close enough to a GT500 to see the license plate. So $20K would be a significant amount. The Camaro and Mustang are competing vehicles and historically have been priced similarly. So with an extra $20K there should be a huge gap in the performance. If the CF GT500 at $94K (MSRP without add-ons) can't absolutely annihilate the ZLE (which when optioned pretty heavily with unnecessary items can hit $74K) at everything then what exactly are you getting for that extra money?


I do not hate the GT500. If I could find one at MSRP I would buy one for sure. So you're off your rocker if you think that. However these are things that are important when discussing the performance of a performance-built vehicle. If we were talking Lexus vs Infinity and the Lexus had $20K in upgrades over the Infinity then there would be a night and day difference between those cars. Or if you put a $$70K Sierra 1500 up against a $50K F-150 there would be a huge gap between those trucks. Or a $70K X5 against a $50K Explorer. So you can try to ignore it since it doesn't help your argument, but even a few of the Mustang guys have admitted that at the price of the CF GT500 it would have to really beat the ZLE.

I see your point, but not everyone shares your analysis of the financial aspect.

Some people are going to buy the car because they want the car and the extra $ is not an issue and performance?

We are talking about a 700+ hp car... there is not any performance lacking, TRUST that nobody is going to the damn nurburgring and the drag strip with their car.
All these silly quotes of track times, and tenths of seconds are just forum talk. You really think people are making multi-thousand dollar decisions because of a second somewhere?
If you like a car, you like it for more than how fast it can go on xxxx.

And also these are street cars where 99% of their lives will be going to get ice cream not living at the drag strip or road course to beat on the car.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Why wouldn't the ZLE keep up with the C8 Z51? I legit want to hear why you think that.

That's been my question are there any same track numbers for both the C8 Z51 and the ZLE? I would think that the ZLE would be faster.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by newmoon

That's been my question are there any same track numbers for both the C8 Z51 and the ZLE? I would think that the ZLE would be faster.

A video of a guy taking his own zl1 1le got a faster lap time at VIR full then the pro Pobst did in the c8z51. So I would guess in a pros hand, the 1le will be much faster.

[ZRacerLE]

A ZLE will be significantly faster than a C8Z51 I predict. As it should. It's the same case for the GT500 CFTP. The halo camaro and halo mustang SHOULD be faster than the entry level Corvette. C8Z will be significantly faster than those two.

... and if you think about the camaro and mustang are the old generations compared to the C8. I'm hoping we're starting to see a new trend of the halo camaro and mustang running with the equivalent generation Z06. In this case it would be the C7 Z06. If I'm right, the next gen camaro (I believe it's coming) and mustang halos will run with the C8Z.

Nothing will ever run with a ZR1 except for the BRAND's halo car like the viper or ford gt. You won't see camaro or mustang lap with a ZR1 of equal generation... just my bench racing opinion, ha!

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

It just seems off. It took even Lund a while to smooth out the driveability and surging issues with the GT350 TB. Ford had to release a package with the tuning in it. And that was years ago. I'm pretty sure Ford has the ECUs locked down even tighter at this point. And I doubt anyone is smart enough to crack it in such a short amount of time. I'm not calling foul or anything. I'm just saying I wonder if Ford helped him out in some way. Like maybe they gave him enough to get the ball rolling and he figured the rest out. Or if maybe they just decided to not lock the ECUs that tightly after all.

That's true, maybe that had something to do with it being a FPC though and being different?

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Lund worked with hp tuners on this one.

Good to know, maybe multiple people looking at it is why it got cracked faster

Originally Posted by ZRacerLE

A ZLE will be significantly faster than a C8Z51 I predict. As it should. It's the same case for the GT500 CFTP. The halo camaro and halo mustang SHOULD be faster than the entry level Corvette. C8Z will be significantly faster than those two.

... and if you think about the camaro and mustang are the old generations compared to the C8. I'm hoping we're starting to see a new tread of the halo camaro and mustang running with the equivalent generation Z06. In this case it would be the C7 Z06. If I'm right, the next gen camaro (I believe it's coming) and mustang halos will run with the C8Z.

Nothing will ever run with a ZR1 except for the BRAND's halo car like the viper or ford gt. You won't see camaro or mustang lap with a ZR1 of equal generation... just my bench racing opinion, ha!

I don't think the the halo camaro will ever run with the current generation Corvette Z car, especially if they continue to share power trains. Previous generation corvettes had the advantage of weight, aerodynamics, etc and now the current Corvette has the advantage of the ME layout. Not saying the camaro wouldn't be close but still to many advantages to the Corvette if they continue to share powertrains

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Nah you just have something personal against me. And for whatever reason you came from whatever sub-forum you usually frequent to come here and start shit with me or insult me every chance you get.

But in reply, I never said that the GM cars CAN'T have those issues. We were talking about how these cars perform stock and why the times vary soo dramatically with the GT500. And it is more than obvious to even an idiot that the GT500 is suffering from issues with traction, heat soak, and temps/DA. Those are the three excuses that we have been hearing all this time. Even you can't argue that. MT and C&D both just ran 11.3, 11.4, and 11.5. Did they not? And what are the main things people have said about those runs? Track prep, DA, and in the case of the Las Vegas press event, the car was ran continuously and was heat soaked. When have you seen any of those comments about the ZL1 or Z06? The ZL1 has been doing 11.3-11.5 consistently. The Z06 has been going a little faster. The C8 runs consistent 11.1s. Not one person has brought up what the DA was or track prep or any of that. Because it is an issue, but it does not affect the Camaros and Corvettes as drastically.

Now if you wanna let some personal thing you have against me lead you to ignore common sense then fine with me. But it isn't a bash against the GT500. It is an absolute fact that when one variable is removed, the GT500 will suffer greatly. Off a prepped track it is not going to run 10.6 bone stock on stock tires. In terrible DA it is not going to run a 10.6 bone stock on stock tires. If I am wrong then I'd like to hear your explanation.

No,i have a problem with all people spewing useless wrong information on forums. If I had something personal against you why would i back you up when you are right????? Your run at the drag strip is my explanation and your lack of common sense to know that high hp + rwd + street tires = hard to get traction (see also inconsistent launches). There are plenty of ZL1 owners out there running 12s. The best I ever ran in my M6 Hellcat on those stupid PZeros was a 12 Flat, but if I would have bought some DRs i would have been a low 11 just from tires. These cars need traction. Meanwhile i was the dummy trying to make the Hellcat keep up with Camaros on road courses, hence my trade.

Originally Posted by TreedYou

And I doubt the ZLE is going to keep up with the C8 Z51...

WRONG!

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Seriously tho. And AJ is (or claims to be) a SS owner...meanwhile he's talking down on SLE owners. Gotta love it.

You do understand that a $20K difference between cars is a HUGE gap right? Do you realize what can be done with $20K? Or to make it simple, a $20K difference between trims/options within even the same Make and Model is substantial. Or are you trying to argue that. I'm not talking about what people can afford. I'm talking about if the performance of the GT500 as compared to the ZLE makes the $20K worthwhile. As an example, the ZL1 and SS are worlds apart in performance. And that is only about a $10K difference in price when optioned similarly. Add $10K to that and you have a Z06. Or look at it this way, at a $13K difference, the GT350 non-R can even get close enough to a GT500 to see the license plate. So $20K would be a significant amount. The Camaro and Mustang are competing vehicles and historically have been priced similarly. So with an extra $20K there should be a huge gap in the performance. If the CF GT500 at $94K (MSRP without add-ons) can't absolutely annihilate the ZLE (which when optioned pretty heavily with unnecessary items can hit $74K) at everything then what exactly are you getting for that extra money?


I do not hate the GT500. If I could find one at MSRP I would buy one for sure. So you're off your rocker if you think that. However these are things that are important when discussing the performance of a performance-built vehicle. If we were talking Lexus vs Infinity and the Lexus had $20K in upgrades over the Infinity then there would be a night and day difference between those cars. Or if you put a $$70K Sierra 1500 up against a $50K F-150 there would be a huge gap between those trucks. Or a $70K X5 against a $50K Explorer. So you can try to ignore it since it doesn't help your argument, but even a few of the Mustang guys have admitted that at the price of the CF GT500 it would have to really beat the ZLE.

So first part, yes some of them need to get off their high horse. Maybe my 90% comment is high, but the MAJORITY of the advantage the SS1LE has is the wheels and tires! You are still convinced I'm a mustang guy, once again hahahahahahahahaha so oblivious.
Second part about price differences and whether the GT500 is worth $20+k more you are absolutely right on that no it's not. I've already said so many times a ZLE should still beat the CFTP on the track so spending way more money to lose definitely isn't worth it.

Originally Posted by 13vertss

A video of a guy taking his own zl1 1le got a faster lap time at VIR full then the pro Pobst did in the c8z51. So I would guess in a pros hand, the 1le will be much faster.

This!