[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Serious question, not trolling, what makes you say that? There's a school of thought that the trans with less gears is usually a little bit beefier, I know there's guys that still prefer built 5 speeds. Have you seen anything that says the c7 7070 is stronger than the c6 zr1 or gt500 tr6060, which is widely well regarded? Or if the c7 zr1 tr7070 is any stronger than the one on the z06?

We're in agreement about the 7 speed being the better choice btw. I just see the 6060 as the easier option for a company that seems reluctant to add a manual anyhow.

Good question - I have not seen anything that says the 7M is any stronger than the 6M, just based my post on the 7M getting the nod from GM to handle the LT5 power which is significantly more torque than the GT500. By all means, the 6M would as well, as the LT4 torque is rated higher than the GT500 as well.

What trans is in the GT350's? I doubt its the MT-82...at least I hope not.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

Yep, but watch out, you don't want to offend all of our SS1LE guys here that deny the wheels and tires are 90% of the advantage it has over a regular SS.
Even a ZL1 with ZLE tires will close that gap immensely.


You are correct any of these high hp rwd cars can have traction problems across the world at any time. His drag strip knowledge is proving to be almost as good as his road course knowledge...


Bingo


BINGO!

You're 90% figure is wrong, there's already an Ask Al thread with plenty of data discussing this. More like 77% with 1le wheels/tires, lowering kit, and handling kit depending on how you do your math lol.... don't be one those SS guys that gets insecure about the ss 1le, both are plenty badass and have their +'s & -'s.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

Is this serious? Maybe Martinjlm can comment.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/11...ss-than-80000/

I've heard this also, definately possible but I'd ask; define "losing money" lol.

Wonder if salesmen are highly encouraged to get customers to option the crap out of them lol.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Good question - I have not seen anything that says the 7M is any stronger than the 6M, just based my post on the 7M getting the nod from GM to handle the LT5 power which is significantly more torque than the GT500. By all means, the 6M would as well, as the LT4 torque is rated higher than the GT500 as well.

What trans is in the GT350's? I doubt its the MT-82...at least I hope not.

It's not the mt-82, thankfully it's a tremec but it's not the tr6060 as many erroneously assume. It's the lighter duty tr3160. Same 6 speed used in v6 and i4 camaros I believe.Tighter gearing, 5th is 1:1, and supposedly its lighter duty construction is better suited for high revs as opposed to a higher torque rating.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

It's not the mt-82, thankfully it's a tremec but it's not the tr6060 as many erroneously assume. It's the lighter duty tr3160. Same 6 speed used in v6 and i4 camaros I believe.Tighter gearing, 5th is 1:1, and supposedly its lighter duty construction is better suited for high revs as opposed to a higher torque rating.

Thanks, I figured it wasn't but also couldn't recall from memory what the spec was. TR6060 would be fine in the GT500, unless they want to attempt a tiny bit better fuel mph and slightly tighter gearing with the TR7070. I just hope Ford does it, to keep the pressure on others to offer high HP manuals - I do hope to own an LT5 powered car with a manual in the not so distant future. Would be happy if it was a Camaro, but just as happy with a ZR1.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

Is this serious? Maybe Martinjlm can comment.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/11...ss-than-80000/

I take all of these "losing money on every...." comments with a grain of salt. It all depends on the basis for computing cost. There used to be ridiculous figures for how much money GM lost on every Chevrolet Volt produced and the only thing I could say for certain about those was that they were all wrong. At the time I was pretty knowledgeable on the financial details for Volt. The people who managed them allowed me access because of what my job was at the time.

Anyway, wrt Corvette, I am sure one could construct a scenario where when you factor in development costs plus cost to expand Bowling Green plus certification costs plus plus plus you could show where the 2020 loses money. It goes to volume assumptions and how C8 specific program costs are allocated and ignoring the fact that more products are coming that will share in some of those costs.

There are fixed costs (cost of facilities and tools, for example) and indirect costs (transportation of material, share of tools, supplies, and utilities required to operate the plant for example), and direct costs (materials, wages, transportation of product) some of which are fixed and some variable (for example, not all cars get a PDR, so that's a variable direct material cost).

Without seeing the detail to back up the claim I tend to file it under "I'm pretty certain the program team is not staffed by idiots".

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I might be wrong but I thought Ford was locking the ECUs air tight. So I'm not sure how anyone could figure it out this fast...even Lund. I wonder if they are allowing him to tune it or if they are allowing their customers to purchase an unlock. Whatever the case, if they really are getting that much power from those little mods and it is safe and if it can be driven out of there and DD'd without issues then that is impressive. But I would like to see how long it lasts and if there are any drive-ability issues with it.

They have been trying to make them harder to crack IIRC but the guys like Lund have seem to been able to crack them very quickly.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Grimfrost769

So, what is it going to take for a ZL1 1LE to compete with the CFTP?

Someone in the driver's seat...

Most likely the ZLE will match or beat the CF GT500. It won't have the HP deficit that the C8 Z51 had. And it should handle just about the same if not better. I don't see how it won't make up for that lost time and then some. I'd say both cars will be matched about evenly in the quarter mile and just about evenly on the track. But considering the comments made about how the ZL1 beat the GT350R only because it had more HP, the fact that the GT500 enjoys a HP boost over the ZLE should mean that the Z should stand no chance at all. The only remaining question will be if the Shelby does manage to win, or if it can only match the Z, or if it loses, then is that level of performance worth the extra $20K+. Most of us think that the Shelby would have to destroy the ZLE in order to justify the price.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

Is this serious? Maybe Martinjlm can comment.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/11...ss-than-80000/

Not surprised by the article and likely will be the reason you will not find any 59k specials sitting on the dealer lots. The near 80k optioned C8 will be the sweet spot for consumer and manufacturer.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by TheRealJA105

You are correct any of these high hp rwd cars can have traction problems across the world at any time. His drag strip knowledge is proving to be almost as good as his road course knowledge...

Nah you just have something personal against me. And for whatever reason you came from whatever sub-forum you usually frequent to come here and start shit with me or insult me every chance you get.

But in reply, I never said that the GM cars CAN'T have those issues. We were talking about how these cars perform stock and why the times vary soo dramatically with the GT500. And it is more than obvious to even an idiot that the GT500 is suffering from issues with traction, heat soak, and temps/DA. Those are the three excuses that we have been hearing all this time. Even you can't argue that. MT and C&D both just ran 11.3, 11.4, and 11.5. Did they not? And what are the main things people have said about those runs? Track prep, DA, and in the case of the Las Vegas press event, the car was ran continuously and was heat soaked. When have you seen any of those comments about the ZL1 or Z06? The ZL1 has been doing 11.3-11.5 consistently. The Z06 has been going a little faster. The C8 runs consistent 11.1s. Not one person has brought up what the DA was or track prep or any of that. Because it is an issue, but it does not affect the Camaros and Corvettes as drastically.

Now if you wanna let some personal thing you have against me lead you to ignore common sense then fine with me. But it isn't a bash against the GT500. It is an absolute fact that when one variable is removed, the GT500 will suffer greatly. Off a prepped track it is not going to run 10.6 bone stock on stock tires. In terrible DA it is not going to run a 10.6 bone stock on stock tires. If I am wrong then I'd like to hear your explanation.

Originally Posted by shaffe

They have been trying to make them harder to crack IIRC but the guys like Lund have seem to been able to crack them very quickly.

It just seems off. It took even Lund a while to smooth out the driveability and surging issues with the GT350 TB. Ford had to release a package with the tuning in it. And that was years ago. I'm pretty sure Ford has the ECUs locked down even tighter at this point. And I doubt anyone is smart enough to crack it in such a short amount of time. I'm not calling foul or anything. I'm just saying I wonder if Ford helped him out in some way. Like maybe they gave him enough to get the ball rolling and he figured the rest out. Or if maybe they just decided to not lock the ECUs that tightly after all.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Nah you just have something personal against me.

LOL, all these guys need to form a support group with each other. Every timme you make a post they can console each other on a group chat or something HAHAHAHA

[GossipSquirrelJelena]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I take all of these "losing money on every...." comments with a grain of salt. It all depends on the basis for computing cost. There used to be ridiculous figures for how much money GM lost on every Chevrolet Volt produced and the only thing I could say for certain about those was that they were all wrong. At the time I was pretty knowledgeable on the financial details for Volt. The people who managed them allowed me access because of what my job was at the time.

Anyway, wrt Corvette, I am sure one could construct a scenario where when you factor in development costs plus cost to expand Bowling Green plus certification costs plus plus plus you could show where the 2020 loses money. It goes to volume assumptions and how C8 specific program costs are allocated and ignoring the fact that more products are coming that will share in some of those costs.

There are fixed costs (cost of facilities and tools, for example) and indirect costs (transportation of material, share of tools, supplies, and utilities required to operate the plant for example), and direct costs (materials, wages, transportation of product) some of which are fixed and some variable (for example, not all cars get a PDR, so that's a variable direct material cost).

Without seeing the detail to back up the claim I tend to file it under "I'm pretty certain the program team is not staffed by idiots".

Thanks, sounds like the oil industry I work in. There's 3 different sets of books. And they're all cooked.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

Thanks, sounds like the oil industry I work in. There's 3 different sets of books. And they're all cooked.

Look at that, I found another thing we have in common!

[TreedYou]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Someone in the driver's seat...

Most likely the ZLE will match or beat the CF GT500. It won't have the HP deficit that the C8 Z51 had. And it should handle just about the same if not better. I don't see how it won't make up for that lost time and then some. I'd say both cars will be matched about evenly in the quarter mile and just about evenly on the track. But considering the comments made about how the ZL1 beat the GT350R only because it had more HP, the fact that the GT500 enjoys a HP boost over the ZLE should mean that the Z should stand no chance at all. The only remaining question will be if the Shelby does manage to win, or if it can only match the Z, or if it loses, then is that level of performance worth the extra $20K+. Most of us think that the Shelby would have to destroy the ZLE in order to justify the price.

Ahhh so close!
i was all like, he's going to make a post without mentioning the price of the GT500... You know that they are all going to be sold out anyway right?
Most people who can buy a 70k+ car aren't concerned with your financial analysis.

Everybody gets it, you HATE the GT500 with all your soul.
And I doubt the ZLE is going to keep up with the C8 Z51...