[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by FloridaBill

Seems like you were in the right place at the right time and an allocation was available when you placed your order. Your sale is how it should work for anyone who waves a handful of cash in their face with or without an allocation.

Unfortunately GM (and others apparently) like to shoot themselves in the foot and then wonder why they need a taxpayer bailout.

Yeah - really. This whole thing is about as NON-transparent as you can get. Its going to cost them sales, period. The Camaro isnt the only cool car available or within peoples budgets. If they get a better buying/ordering/allocation process somewhere else than thats what they're going to go with.

Like I said before: We arent ordering a limited edition Enzo Ferrari badged V12 #1 of 50 here. Its a Camaro. I love the car, dont take that wrong, but its a GM product. Just hook us bros up, please!

[tommcd24]

I'll play devil's advocate a little bit here, but understand that I also have some frustration with the allocation process. However, most of the angst and issues of the last 6 months really boil down to COVID and Supply Chain, not so much allocations themselves. Could the process be clearer, more transparent, and easily understood? Yes. But presumably, there would have been many more allocations available for people if LGR hadn't been closed from March 16 - June 24th (those dates are close, but may not be exact).

The extensive downtime caused MY 21 production to be extended by two months to try and cover some of the allocated '21 orders already in the system (but by no means all). Many vehicles were "built-shy", and those are the people I really feel for who are still waiting on their car... In turn, MY 22 was delayed (was initially going to start in June) until mid-August. And as we all know, the continuing microchip supply chain issues caused LGR to close again two weeks ago and through the end of this week. Fingers crossed LGR does open and resume production next Monday on the 4th.

So I guess, what I'm saying, is GM's allocation process isn't perfect, but it is the chip shortage that we're all ready mad at.

And yes, to some extent it does feel like the higher cost builds are getting allocated first. First vehicles delivered seem to all be ZL1s. I personally decided to spend an extra $8k for a 2SS build vs. my initial 3LT preference. Frankly, I was sick of waiting and wasn't willing to wait for the V6 constraint to resolve itself. As others have said, best info so far is that will be at least November. There may be a component that is unavailable causing that delay, but it could also be GM deciding to use the available chips for LT1 engines instead of LGX engines (assuming they have a chip or other components in common, but they may not).

Finally thought on allocations - to some extent they help level the playing field. If GM truly allowed first come, first serve, there would likely end up being a handfuly of regional super dealers who would flood the order banks and then end up charging a premium, because they had all of the supply, and other dealers would end up out of business due to lack of vehicles... Worst case, end game, but seems quite possible.

[FloridaBill]

Agreed that 2020-21 model years were jacked up by covid. However temporary plant closures do not stop the ordering/allocation process from moving forward. My gripe is not with Lansing as I fully expect the plant to experience delays. My problem is the corp game that is played with the dealerships.

As Susie mentioned, she was #25 on the list at Joe’s dealership and already has a TPW date. Which obviously means that GM is basically giving an absurd amount of allocations to that dealership while others get literally none. Your point about “Mega Dealers” could not be more wrong because clearly that already exists. I placed an order a month ago with a local dealer that I have done business with for years, I’m #1 on the list, and they can’t even tell me when they will get an allocation to submit the order.

How many people are storming Chevy dealers to order a Camaro? Obviously with the brand on the brink of extinction not too many. So when I show up cash in hand to buy a car I’m not really interested in the quarterly sales numbers for the dealership, I just want to buy a car.

For some idiotic reason an industry that is in the red is trying to make that difficult for me, because of an “algorithm” that the bean counters use to hold over the heads of the dealerships. I’ll say it again, everyone involved loses when an allocation is required to order a car that is already sold.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

I may be somewhat naive, but isn't this whole situation about a (hopefully) temporary lack of components causing supply shortage in the face of high demand, hence the need for allocation management?

Yes it is. The "just build the sold orders" argument sounds good but there would be many dealers abuse the sold order process just to get cars. Especially in today's automotive landscape.

GM doesn't know if it's a real customer attached to a sold order so they have to use the Average Day Supply allocation process. It sucks if a dealer has actual sold orders that need to get filled but this is happening because they know that dealers would abuse the sold order process if they just pulled all of them and built those ahead of everything else.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by tommcd24

I'll play devil's advocate a little bit here, but understand that I also have some frustration with the allocation process. However, most of the angst and issues of the last 6 months really boil down to COVID and Supply Chain, not so much allocations themselves. Could the process be clearer, more transparent, and easily understood? Yes. But presumably, there would have been many more allocations available for people if LGR hadn't been closed from March 16 - June 24th (those dates are close, but may not be exact).

The extensive downtime caused MY 21 production to be extended by two months to try and cover some of the allocated '21 orders already in the system (but by no means all). Many vehicles were "built-shy", and those are the people I really feel for who are still waiting on their car... In turn, MY 22 was delayed (was initially going to start in June) until mid-August. And as we all know, the continuing microchip supply chain issues caused LGR to close again two weeks ago and through the end of this week. Fingers crossed LGR does open and resume production next Monday on the 4th.

So I guess, what I'm saying, is GM's allocation process isn't perfect, but it is the chip shortage that we're all ready mad at.

And yes, to some extent it does feel like the higher cost builds are getting allocated first. First vehicles delivered seem to all be ZL1s. I personally decided to spend an extra $8k for a 2SS build vs. my initial 3LT preference. Frankly, I was sick of waiting and wasn't willing to wait for the V6 constraint to resolve itself. As others have said, best info so far is that will be at least November. There may be a component that is unavailable causing that delay, but it could also be GM deciding to use the available chips for LT1 engines instead of LGX engines (assuming they have a chip or other components in common, but they may not).

Finally thought on allocations - to some extent they help level the playing field. If GM truly allowed first come, first serve, there would likely end up being a handfuly of regional super dealers who would flood the order banks and then end up charging a premium, because they had all of the supply, and other dealers would end up out of business due to lack of vehicles... Worst case, end game, but seems quite possible.

Points taken - and some are good here. Hate the game, not the player type of thing. And, Im probably being an impatient, whiny 50 year old about this. . But, that doesnt change the fact that it appears the ordering and allocation process are more complicated than Amazons tax returns. This Joe guy at this site appears to have an "in". Thats awesome but out of state buying brings its own set of issues. Id prefer to stay with my local shop but if they dont get any cars then, well, I got nothing. We'll see how it goes over the nest few months I guess.

Originally Posted by FloridaBill

Agreed that 2020-21 model years were jacked up by covid. However temporary plant closures do not stop the ordering/allocation process from moving forward. My gripe is not with Lansing as I fully expect the plant to experience delays. My problem is the corp game that is played with the dealerships.

As Susie mentioned, she was #25 on the list at Joe’s dealership and already has a TPW date. Which obviously means that GM is basically giving an absurd amount of allocations to that dealership while others get literally none. Your point about “Mega Dealers” could not be more wrong because clearly that already exists. I placed an order a month ago with a local dealer that I have done business with for years, I’m #1 on the list, and they can’t even tell me when they will get an allocation to submit the order.

How many people are storming Chevy dealers to order a Camaro? Obviously with the brand on the brink of extinction not too many. So when I show up cash in hand to buy a car I’m not really interested in the quarterly sales numbers for the dealership, I just want to buy a car.

For some idiotic reason an industry that is in the red is trying to make that difficult for me, because of an “algorithm” that the bean counters use to hold over the heads of the dealerships. I’ll say it again, everyone involved loses when an allocation is required to order a car that is already sold.

Yeah - my upstate, NY dealer Im working with is fairly high volume but apparently they have no pull either, lol. This is why it seems so NOT organized. Dealer X gets a boatload of allotments and Dealer Y gets 2 cars or NO cars. So... what the hell does one do? Like I said, Ill stick it out for a while but if we get to winter with no order accepted or some other runaround its gonna be hard not to bail.

[tommcd24]

Originally Posted by FloridaBill

As Susie mentioned, she was #25 on the list at Joe’s dealership and already has a TPW date. Which obviously means that GM is basically giving an absurd amount of allocations to that dealership while others get literally none. Your point about “Mega Dealers” could not be more wrong because clearly that already exists. I placed an order a month ago with a local dealer that I have done business with for years, I’m #1 on the list, and they can’t even tell me when they will get an allocation to submit the order.

Joe is at a "high volume" Camaro dealer, but I wouldn't consider it to be a "Mega" dealer. Those are arbitrary descriptors, but when I said Mega, I was imagining one dealer selling 50%+ of all Camaros built and being able to definitively influence and control the market. I may not have expressed that very well.

Like you, I ordered from my local dealer (although I did consider ordering from Joe, but I'm on the local EDA Board, so I have that to think about...). The difference is that Joe's dealership consistently sells lots of Camaros - due to excellent service, good pricing, and a willingness to deliver across the US or facilitate fly-in closings. Your dealer, and mine, sell a handful a year, so only get a handful of allocations.

I don't know for sure, but I've heard a little bit about the consensus and the annual planning process (forget the term for that) and the dealers probably a rough idea of when they'll get allocations, but everything is subject to change, expecially over the last 18 months. BTW, those allocations are also vehicle specific, so they can't use a truck allocation to build your Camaro, etc.

We can agree to disagree, after all a lot of this is speculation and pieced together bits of info that may not add up to how we interpret. At the end of the day, I hope you all get allocations, we all get our cars built, and can enjoy them as soon as weather in our respective areas allows us to.

[Aquarius]

all the arguments lead me to ask a simple question then: why does GM have a system that combines orders by a customer with orders for dealerships to fill its lots? This was the kinda thing I was referring to when I said "it's 2021 and we have the technology..." I am certain something could be done to make sure dealerships don't impersonate individual customers.

Now, what would to occur to make that change? The answer to that will be thought about by all those still waiting in 1100 limbo.

[JKSully]

Originally Posted by Aquarius

all the arguments lead me to ask a simple question then: why does GM have a system that combines orders by a customer with orders for dealerships to fill its lots? This was the kinda thing I was referring to when I said "it's 2021 and we have the technology..." I am certain something could be done to make sure dealerships don't impersonate individual customers.

Now, what would to occur to make that change? The answer to that will be thought about by all those still waiting in 1100 limbo.

In short, it's the fact that the current dealership business model is a concept held over from the early days of the automobile that has since been codified into law. Dealers are independent businesses and not owned/run by the manufacturers, and manufacturers are now bound by franchise agreements and state laws to not sell directly to the consumer. Any effort to change that in the past has resulted in multiple legal issues for the manufacturers trying to change it.

Now that Tesla has fought some of those battles, new manufacturers like Rivian can follow in its footsteps. I'm sure the older manufacturers are very tightly bound (legally) to their existing agreements and it will be much harder for them to start selling directly to consumers.

[90503]

Getting the exact car you want should be a good experience, and perhaps happen only once in one's lifetime. Trying to figure out how a dealership works, how the plant works that builds them, how it's transported, etc., I think just makes for a headache and upset more than bring any new car enjoyment.

I don't want to know or need to know or have any influence in how the sausage is made. What a lot of you are going through while waiting and trying to figure it out is unfortunate. But if it were simpler, wouldn't you be happier?

Keep all the codes and updates. Just reasonably tell me when my car will be in, how much it will cost, and I'll decide if I will wait or just shop off the lot. Every detail of the inner-workings over which I have no control just adds to the frustration when there is a delay. Good luck. My $.02.

[JKSully]

Originally Posted by 90503

Getting the exact car you want should be a good experience, and perhaps happen only once in one's lifetime. Trying to figure out how a dealership works, how the plant works that builds them, how it's transported, etc., I think just makes for a headache and upset more than bring any new car enjoyment.

I don't want to know or need to know or have any influence in how the sausage is made. What a lot of you are going through while waiting and trying to figure it out is unfortunate. But if it were simpler, wouldn't you be happier?

Keep all the codes and updates. Just reasonably tell me when my car will be in, how much it will cost, and I'll decide if I will wait or just shop off the lot. Every detail of the inner-workings over which I have no control just adds to the frustration when there is a delay. Good luck. My $.02.

Oh, I absolutely agree with you, it shouldn't be this frustrating to the average consumer. I'm not trying to defend or condemn the way the system works, I just happen to work in an industry adjacent to the automotive industry itself and am sharing the rudimentary understanding I've picked up over the years.

[WhiteMale]

You'd like to think that the sold order or whatever would get some priority but noted too that that can be manipulated by a dealer.

[02blackss]

I went through this BS back in January when I put in an order for a 21' LT1...Of course the dealer took my money and said to me...Of course we have allocation....when they really did not. After waiting for a few months with no movement, I called them on it and got my down payment back. Managed to get one from stock at a competing dealership that came in. Needless to say, it made the whole experience of "ordering" a car very very frustrating. Will never go through it again.............

[dfxrte]

Originally Posted by FloridaBill

Agreed that 2020-21 model years were jacked up by covid. However temporary plant closures do not stop the ordering/allocation process from moving forward. My gripe is not with Lansing as I fully expect the plant to experience delays. My problem is the corp game that is played with the dealerships.

As Susie mentioned, she was #25 on the list at Joe’s dealership and already has a TPW date. Which obviously means that GM is basically giving an absurd amount of allocations to that dealership while others get literally none. Your point about “Mega Dealers” could not be more wrong because clearly that already exists. I placed an order a month ago with a local dealer that I have done business with for years, I’m #1 on the list, and they can’t even tell me when they will get an allocation to submit the order.

How many people are storming Chevy dealers to order a Camaro? Obviously with the brand on the brink of extinction not too many. So when I show up cash in hand to buy a car I’m not really interested in the quarterly sales numbers for the dealership, I just want to buy a car.

For some idiotic reason an industry that is in the red is trying to make that difficult for me, because of an “algorithm” that the bean counters use to hold over the heads of the dealerships. I’ll say it again, everyone involved loses when an allocation is required to order a car that is already sold.

Just because you're on a list doesn't mean you get a car..my dealer has 53 people on the C8 list, are they getting 53 c8s this year? no. maybe 20, then the list rolls over or get your deposit back.


It's pretty simple reasoning honestly, just plan ahead and be patient and you'll get your car. We get it, you want to buy a camaro, but what about everyone else in front of you? Everyone's waiting for cars, chips, spoilers etc. If you have cash and want a camaro pay over MSRP for a slightly used one

[FloridaBill]

Originally Posted by dfxrte

We get it, you want to buy a camaro, but what about everyone else in front of you? Everyone's waiting for cars, chips, spoilers etc. If you have cash and want a camaro pay over MSRP for a slightly used one

No, you don’t get it. Everyone who is waiting on a car had their order picked up. I can’t even get that far and it makes no business sense for anyone involved.

The only car I’m interested in buying is the one I ordered, I have a 2015 SS in excellent condition that I will most likely keep. The demand for a Camaro isn’t in the same universe as the demand for a C8 so I have no idea what one has to do with the other. And finally, this may be the last chance to buy the Camaro I want and the chances of finding one exactly as I ordered sitting on a lot is likely zero.