[Mountain]

Originally Posted by Msquared

I have a really hard time believing that. I can't find any other references to that besides the one person in the thread you cited. I can't even find an SKF hub/bearing set for a 6th-gen Camaro anywhere. There are plenty of outlets (including the common GM dealership parts counter places) selling OE bearings branded AC Delco with the part numbers cited in that thread (13512895 for front), and they are typically selling for $83-$99. If those were truly X-trackers, they would cost a lot more than that. So either our cars weren't actually built with X-tracker hubs or all the replacements you can get - even from the dealer - are garbage and will fail very quickly on track. Does anybody have a solid reference where it's documented that GM installed X-tracker hubs in our cars at the factory?

OTOH, if our cars don't come equipped with X-tracker hubs and the OE-branded ones we can all buy are truly the same as what's installed from the factory, then the good news is that they hold up pretty well to track use and they are really cheap (again, ~$83) to replace. Coming from a C4 Corvette (and which used the same hubs as a 4th-gen F-body), that would be a refreshing change of pace.

The same wheel bearing is used on all the Camaros, so you have to consider volume, right. Anything “AC Delco” or “GM Genuine” for anything that been produced within the past 10 years will be from the OE/production supplier, not just “somebody”.


I don’t get your position: If its not X-Tracker bearings they’re garbage, but if they are, they aren’t regardless of the fact the bearings aren’t an “issue” on these cars?

[carguy55]

This page lists symptoms and how to check

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...=1323&jsn=1323

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Msquared

I'm not aware of any, including any actual X-tracker replacement hubs. The OE design may in fact be fine, and may incorporate some or all of the design features of the X-tracker already. Who knows?

It looks like Moog and Centric might have some options... I'm contacting them tomorrow/Monday to find out. They range between $140 and $160 so I'm hoping that means better quality.

https://centricparts.com/part-detail...t&model=camaro

https://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/moog-512399

Moog says theirs are billet steel instead of cast

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by cdrptrks

Not yet. I wiggle each tire with one hand on the outside and one on the inside while each corner is jacked up as part of pre track day inspections and so far they all feel the same with very little movement which may be entirely from the sidewall flexing a bit.

I learned here on the forums that 6th gen Camaros have SKF x-tracker hubs which are very high quality. That may be related to the warranty covering HPDE usage on the SS and ZL1.

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=576670

I'm not sure how good the stock wheel hubs can be if they fit all Camaro's! There is a big difference between a ZL1 going around a track and a 4 cylinder being driven on the street...

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by Mountain

The same wheel bearing is used on all the Camaros, so you have to consider volume, right. Anything “AC Delco” or “GM Genuine” for anything that been produced within the past 10 years will be from the OE/production supplier, not just “somebody”.


I don’t get your position: If its not X-Tracker bearings they’re garbage, but if they are, they aren’t regardless of the fact the bearings aren’t an “issue” on these cars?

NO, you and I see things pretty much the same. My point is that I don't think GM is installing X-tracker hubs in these cars at the factory, and it doesn't really matter. I don't worry about it all. From what I can see, these OE bearings hold up pretty well considering the hard lives some of us 1LE owners are putting them through. You can get OE AC Delco front hubs from Rockauto for $77ea, and I see no good reason to do anything else.

[driven2exceSS]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Thanks for the info, I have ordered new wheel hubs (way cheaper than I thought it would be) but apparently they are on back order everywhere with no ETA.

I'll add, that I had some uneven rolling resistance from them. Which is why I originally bought mine to replace. They certainly get loaded up (G-force/weight), and see a ton of heat. With all the other metal fatigue, it was definitely time. Hope you get them in your hands soon...

[Alpha1BC]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

I'm not sure how good the stock wheel hubs can be if they fit all Camaro's! There is a big difference between a ZL1 going around a track and a 4 cylinder being driven on the street...

Stock bearings are pretty beefy. You'll be hard pressed to find anything that'll work much better without paying a ton for something specialized from what I've seen. My guess as to why it's common for all of them would be that the costs to design and implement different designs for different trims likely wouldn't be offset by the slight decrease in piece cost.

Originally Posted by Msquared

NO, you and I see things pretty much the same. My point is that I don't think GM is installing X-tracker hubs in these cars at the factory, and it doesn't really matter. I don't worry about it all. From what I can see, these OE bearings hold up pretty well considering the hard lives some of us 1LE owners are putting them through. You can get OE AC Delco front hubs from Rockauto for $77ea, and I see no good reason to do anything else.

They're all X-tracker hubs. I've spoken to SKF directly in the past to confirm. X-tracker is primarily a bearing orientation design, and luckily GM went with this design for all the Camaro hubs (and likely many others) which keeps costs low. I agree with you that it's probably best to stick OE in this case. The SKF bearing is what went through all the development/validation at GM which includes some pretty serious track use. Others like Moog/Centric probably didn't, and their costs are likely higher simply because they aren't equipped to produce those parts at the volumes SKF does with no performance/quality benefit.

[cdrptrks]

Well I was surprised to find a lot of play in one of my rear wheels a few days ago when doing the usual wheel wiggle test with each corner jacked up. The car has around 40k miles and about 30 track days plus around 10 autocross days from my 3 years of ownership and the previous owner probably tracked the car too judging by the heat checks that were on the front rotors when I bought it. I do usually drive over/on curbs on track in places where it helps generate faster laps since the FE4 suspension soaks them up...that may have accelerated the wheel bearing's failure. 7 of those days were at NOLA which has a lot of right hand turns but specifically turn 8 is entered above 120mph while on the gas and then I use the curbing on the right with my right tires before braking which is probably asking a lot from the left side wheel bearings.

I just installed an OEM replacement hub and it fixed the issue. I am now planning to start doing the wheel wiggle test a few weeks before every track/autocross event even though most organizer's tech forms do not list wheel bearing checks. I think it had been several months since I last checked, partially since the Harbor Freight 1.5 ton aluminum jack I brought with me on my track road trip stopped working after the first event and I figured I would hear or feel symptoms of a wheel bearing going bad while driving on track but I didn't.

Originally Posted by carguy55

This page lists symptoms and how to check

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...=1323&jsn=1323

In my case none of the noise/feel symptoms listed there were present when I was driving the car. Maybe the loud exhaust (even in tour mode) and loud stock tires masked any noises. I usually listen to music while driving on the street too but not always.

I suspect that the unsettling feeling of the car occasionally doing a rear end shake/wobble side to side for several seconds before going back to normal on its own was my early warning symptom. It happened a few times while on cruise control and light to moderate throttle on the highway over uneven roads and once while going full throttle in 2nd gear to pass on an uneven 2 lane road. It happened once while I was speeding and it was more sketchy than at normal highway speeds that I drove at for most of the trip. That started about 4 months ago but the car was packed full with tools and a spare set of 4 wheels with tires mounted for my roadtrip so I figured it was just from the weight balance being shifted rearwards and I never noticed it while driving on track without all of the added weight in the car. After the trip it happened again a few times on a nearby on ramp with the car empty but I increased the rear tire pressure from 28 to 32psi and that "fixed" it after repeated additional tests. I'll post here if the shake/wobble comes back but I doubt it will.

Originally Posted by Msquared

I can't even find an SKF hub/bearing set for a 6th-gen Camaro anywhere. There are plenty of outlets (including the common GM dealership parts counter places) selling OE bearings branded AC Delco with the part numbers cited in that thread (13512895 for front), and they are typically selling for $83-$99. If those were truly X-trackers, they would cost a lot more than that.
...
OTOH, if our cars don't come equipped with X-tracker hubs and the OE-branded ones we can all buy are truly the same as what's installed from the factory, then the good news is that they hold up pretty well to track use and they are really cheap (again, ~$83) to replace.

The rear hub on my car and the replacement OEM hub both looked identical and both were stamped SKF (see pic below). Like others mentioned, maybe GM gets a big volume discount for installing them on all Camaros.

Did anyone check rear alignment after replacing a rear wheel bearing to see if it was off? It is mentioned in the shop manual after reconnecting the rear links. I'm thinking it might be a good idea to do the other side preventatively before getting the alignment checked but not looking forward to doing the job again.

Also there was no evidence of red threadlocker on the 2 brake caliper bolts or 3 hub bolts but the shop manual says to use it on them during reassembly. Does anyone know if that is normal from the factory or possibly an indication that the previous owner already replaced the same hub without using the threadlocker? These bolts were all uniformly tight with no evidence of being under torqued when I removed them.

Also the 5 year/60k mile powertrain warranty excludes hubs/bearings which I expected. I think they would be covered by the 3 year/36k mile bumper to bumper warranty though.

Instead of removing the links, the shop manual recommends removing and discarding the 6 bolts and lock washers going into the eDiff, using an axle puller to remove it from that end for hub/bearing replacement, and reinstalling it with 6 new replacement bolts and lock washers but I didn't try this method.

[cdrptrks]

Here's how you check the wheel bearings...didn't even need to use both hands to get obvious movement and noise from the wheel with it jacked up in the air!

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by Alpha1BC

They're all X-tracker hubs. I've spoken to SKF directly in the past to confirm. X-tracker is primarily a bearing orientation design, and luckily GM went with this design for all the Camaro hubs (and likely many others) which keeps costs low. I age offset by the slight decrease in piece cost.ree with you that it's probably best to stick OE in this case. The SKF bearing is what went through all the development/validation at GM which includes some pretty serious track use. Others like Moog/Centric probably didn't, and their costs are likely higher simply because they aren't equipped to produce those parts at the volumes SKF does with no performance/quality benefit.

Interesting! Okay, that plus the SKF stamp seems like pretty solid tech. Thanks for providing that. So yeah, AC Delco replacements or nothing!

[cozog]

I'll just throw out some old school info since I'm still shopping for my first Gen6.
4th gen F-bodys had the same set up for front wheels. Had a stick axle, so no rear "hubs". Anyway, on the race car, front hubs were considered a consumable, lasting 3-6 race weekends using OEM junk yard hubs. I always carried a few in the trailer.

The problem was GM didn't make the hubs any more. So you had a choice of new Chinese "OEM" parts or junk yard parts. We (meaning all the f-body guys in our group) always chose junk yard over brand new Auto Zone parts. The name brand stuff would not even last 1 weekend without failing.

Eventually, someone made an adapter for Corvette SKF hubs and Coleman even made a traditional snout/bearing set up:
http://www.colemanracing.com/Gen-IV-...tor-P6256.aspx


5/6 gen will eventually run into this same issue when GM stops making the hubs. Until then, my experience says always buy OEM hubs.


HTH

[cdrptrks]

Went for my first drive outside of the neighborhood on the new hub tonight and realized another symptom of the bad wheel bearing was more brake pedal travel before engagement and less initial bite. I noticed it after a track night at Harris Hill in June and a full brake fluid flush with fresh fluid did not fix the issue which was strange. But the car still stopped fine even under theshold braking on track so I thought it may have been caused by tapered pad wear and stopped thinking about it, but the issue is now gone with the new hub installed and the old tapered pads still in place.

I saw the brake pads were loose when I removed them which I never saw during past pad thickness checks and replacements. They were probably knocked back away from the rotor by the slop in the bad hub every time I released the brake pedal.

For reference I did successfully resolve a similar feeling soft brake pedal issue in March at NOLA by flushing the front calipers after trying G3R tires for 2 sessions and overheating my StopTech pads and slightly boiling my brake fluid. In that case I had PDR video showing decreased stopping g forces with the same (or more) brake pedal pressure applied.

[Msquared]

Originally Posted by cozog

I'll just throw out some old school info since I'm still shopping for my first Gen6.
4th gen F-bodys had the same set up for front wheels. Had a stick axle, so no rear "hubs". Anyway, on the race car, front hubs were considered a consumable, lasting 3-6 race weekends using OEM junk yard hubs. I always carried a few in the trailer.

The problem was GM didn't make the hubs any more. So you had a choice of new Chinese "OEM" parts or junk yard parts. We (meaning all the f-body guys in our group) always chose junk yard over brand new Auto Zone parts. The name brand stuff would not even last 1 weekend without failing.

Eventually, someone made an adapter for Corvette SKF hubs and Coleman even made a traditional snout/bearing set up:
http://www.colemanracing.com/Gen-IV-...tor-P6256.aspx


5/6 gen will eventually run into this same issue when GM stops making the hubs. Until then, my experience says always buy OEM hubs.

Yep, this is the same for C4 Corvettes, which use the same front hub as the 4th-gen Fbodies. That X-tracker they adapted is for C5/6 Corvettes and is a lot better, and the same adapter kits work on C4s. It's good that GM is using the X-tracker design in newer cars!

[GunMetalGrey]

I purchased wheel hubs from Moog for around $200 a piece because they are in stock, unlike the OEM ones which (according to my dealership) are back ordered with no ETA

If this turns out to be the solution to the issue I’m having, I’ll be interested to see how long these wheel hubs last in comparison to the stock ones.