[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

There isn't going to be a Z/28 that is faster than the current ZL1-1LE. It's just not going to happen. ...

Hmm.... If I was a gambling man I would put money on it. There is a Mercedes Benz out there now that is about 100 hp down on the ZL1 1LE that is faster on many tracks. The current trend for Z/28 is to be the Camaro King of the track.... that means it should beat the ZL1 1LE... we keep moving forward and that means faster. I'm betting a Z/28 will lap the ring faster than the ZL1 1LE or it will never see production. I could be wrong but the current Camaro team seems to be trying to build cars that really make a statement. That is the only logical statement a new Z/28 could make. Faster track Camaro.

[DRKS1D3]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Sorry, didn't mean to come off rude like that. I had actually meant to say thank you for helping make my point for me. Your info was actually quite appreciated.

Not a problem!

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by jessrayo

Hmm.... If I was a gambling man I would put money on it. There is a Mercedes Benz out there now that is about 100 hp down on the ZL1 1LE that is faster on many tracks. The current trend for Z/28 is to be the Camaro King of the track.... that means it should beat the ZL1 1LE... we keep moving forward and that means faster. I'm betting a Z/28 will lap the ring faster than the ZL1 1LE or it will never see production. I could be wrong but the current Camaro team seems to be trying to build cars that really make a statement. That is the only logical statement a new Z/28 could make. Faster track Camaro.

I'll assume you're referring to the AMG GT R, which currently is #7 on the top 10 fastest times at 07:10. That car, has 577 hp but also weighs roughly 300lbs lighter than the ZL1 1LE, with the same type of 0-60 times..

It's also 2x the cost of a ZL1 1LE (the current GT R is 157k base price), which was exactly what I said in my previous post. You will not find a car, at the top of the list, that is going to be bought for under $80k that will do what the ZL1 1LE is doing. The ACR Viper was a car that went for anywhere from $110-125k, depending on when you bought it.


You are right about one thing: it will never see production. The Z/28 is an icon, and if it does get produced, it will be a car that sits above the SS but below the ZL1. That's the only way it gets built. It will be a GT 350R type vehicle.

They aren't going to produce a limited run car that will push costs similar to the Z06 or even come close to the ZR1. They would rather push people to buy those specific cars instead.

That said, I still believe we could see a true upgrade package, ala Z/28, offered for the ZL1... but I just don't see a true Z/28 car coming out that beats what the 1LE did.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

I'll assume you're referring to the AMG GT R, which currently is #7 on the top 10 fastest times at 07:10. That car, has 577 hp but also weighs roughly 300lbs lighter than the ZL1 1LE, with the same type of 0-60 times..

It's also 2x the cost of a ZL1 1LE (the current GT R is 157k base price), which was exactly what I said in my previous post. You will not find a car, at the top of the list, that is going to be bought for under $80k that will do what the ZL1 1LE is doing. The ACR Viper was a car that went for anywhere from $110-125k, depending on when you bought it.


You are right about one thing: it will never see production. The Z/28 is an icon, and if it does get produced, it will be a car that sits above the SS but below the ZL1. That's the only way it gets built. It will be a GT 350R type vehicle.

They aren't going to produce a limited run car that will push costs similar to the Z06 or even come close to the ZR1. They would rather push people to buy those specific cars instead.

That said, I still believe we could see a true upgrade package, ala Z/28, offered for the ZL1... but I just don't see a true Z/28 car coming out that beats what the 1LE did.

Again I agree with this guy ^

Could we see a Camaro faster than the ZLE. Yes, if its powered by the LT5 or the TT LT7.

I personally just do not see a naturally aspirated Camaro out doing the ZLE. And the powers that be made sure that Z/28's must be naturally aspirated. Again I look to Corvette. The Z06/Z07 couldn't beat with the Viper ACR, so what did Corvette do, they went gobs of extra power and aero. they didn't go lightweight less power. That is the route the vette had to go to get faster, that is the route I see the Camaro needing to go faster than the ZLE.

[Smokin19]

A lot of good comments here on this thread but, one thing keeps popping up in my head.

For a track car does it need all the amenities like that on the ZL1/1LE. If the current 1LE was stripped down like my 15' Z/28, I wonder how much weight would be shaved off.

I just can't see a track car needing all those creature comforts. Which begs another question. Maybe GM sees this also and using the 14'-15' model as an example will make a TRUE Z/28 track car without all the extras that aren't needed. That would make the car come in at less money than the 1LE and being lighter, faster around the track. Do you really listen to the stereo while racing? Is your AC on pulling engine power while racing? All that weight comes at a cost in lap time.

Some it up....the current ZL1/1LE is for people who want comfort while racing, but at what cost?

[FNxR3DNECK]

Originally Posted by Smokin15

A lot of good comments here on this thread but, one thing keeps popping up in my head.

For a track car does it need all the amenities like that on the ZL1/1LE. If the current 1LE was stripped down like my 15' Z/28, I wonder how much weight would be shaved off.

I just can't see a track car needing all those creature comforts. Which begs another question. Maybe GM sees this also and using the 14'-15' model as an example will make a TRUE Z/28 track car without all the extras that aren't needed. That would make the car come in at less money than the 1LE and being lighter, faster around the track. Do you really listen to the stereo while racing? Is your AC on pulling engine power while racing? All that weight comes at a cost in lap time.

Some it up....the current ZL1/1LE is for people who want comfort while racing, but at what cost?

All very good points, but remember most of the time a "stripped out" version comes out it's not cheaper. A lot of the time "less is more" when it comes to price, not saying that Chevy will go this route but it's pretty likely. At the end of the day if a new Z/28 is truly FASTER than the ZL1 1LE I highly doubt it will be cheaper, even though you are absolutely right that the ZL1 1LE is for those track rats that want the amenities too, the bragging rights of being the fastest Camaro will come along with a big price tag, it doesn't have to be $10-15k more than a ZL1 1LE but it will absolutely be equal or more expensive if it's faster.

[shaffe]

What he said ^ stripping things out of the car actually makes them more expensive to produce.

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

I'll assume you're referring to the AMG GT R, which currently is #7 on the top 10 fastest times at 07:10. That car, has 577 hp but also weighs roughly 300lbs lighter than the ZL1 1LE, with the same type of 0-60 times.. That is the car and that is my point. It weighs about 300 pounds less and has about 100 less horsepower (okay 73 less). In theory, you could build a Camaro that weighs 300 pounds less and has a little less horsepower and it could still beat ZL1LE around a racetrack.

It's also 2x the cost of a ZL1 1LE (the current GT R is 157k base price), which was exactly what I said in my previous post. You will not find a car, at the top of the list, that is going to be bought for under $80k that will do what the ZL1 1LE is doing. The ACR Viper was a car that went for anywhere from $110-125k, depending on when you bought it. Yep, those cars cost more. But why? It is a complicated question but GM has the ability to use an existing Camaro platform and put some pretty expensive bits on it (like DSSV, etc..) and because of homologation with the base models keep overall cost down. I'm not saying the ZL1LE is not a great bargain, I'm saying that technology does not stand still. The ZL1LE may have been the greatest automotive achievement to date the day it was released but eventually someone will make something much faster and personally I think team Camaro is already working on it.

You are right about one thing: it will never see production. The Z/28 is an icon, and if it does get produced, it will be a car that sits above the SS but below the ZL1. That's the only way it gets built. It will be a GT 350R type vehicle.

They aren't going to produce a limited run car that will push costs similar to the Z06 or even come close to the ZR1. They would rather push people to buy those specific cars instead.

That said, I still believe we could see a true upgrade package, ala Z/28, offered for the ZL1... but I just don't see a true Z/28 car coming out that beats what the 1LE did. Time will tell.

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by Smokin15

A lot of good comments here on this thread but, one thing keeps popping up in my head.

For a track car does it need all the amenities like that on the ZL1/1LE. If the current 1LE was stripped down like my 15' Z/28, I wonder how much weight would be shaved off.

I just can't see a track car needing all those creature comforts. Which begs another question. Maybe GM sees this also and using the 14'-15' model as an example will make a TRUE Z/28 track car without all the extras that aren't needed. That would make the car come in at less money than the 1LE and being lighter, faster around the track. Do you really listen to the stereo while racing? Is your AC on pulling engine power while racing? All that weight comes at a cost in lap time.

Some it up....the current ZL1/1LE is for people who want comfort while racing, but at what cost?

Well, GM already this to some extent with the C5 Corvette. In 1999 they rolled out he "FRC" (Fixed Roof Coupe). This car was not exactly a "stripped" car in that it had the standard creature comforts for that time. It was lighter and cheaper than the standard coupe with the targa. It didn't sell, so in 2001 it got the LS6, 1st gen magnetic suspension and titamium exhaust as was labeled as a "track car", priced higher than the standard coupe and they couldn't build enough of them. However, it was only a few grand ore than the standard Corvette, not 10's of thousands.

However, using the Corvette line up, among the most successful cars in that line up has been the Grand Sport in both the C6 and the C7. All of the Z06 goodies except for the engine and in the case of C6 offered the automatic transmission. Priced right in the middle of the Z06 and the base coupe, it sells very well. This generation of Camaro seems to offer a model in relation with it's Corvette sibling

Camaro...........Corvette
SS..................Base Coupe
1LE.................Z51
-- ..................Grand Sport
ZL1.................Z06
ZL1-1LE..........Z06 w/ Z07 pkg
-- ..................ZR1

If they make a Z/28, it's going to fill one of those two empty spaces. It will either be a N/A engine (LT1, LT6) in the ZL1-1LE configuration, or it will be a ZL1-1LE powered by the LT5.

If they put the LT5 in the Z1LE, I could see them doing a track focused stripper model and only make a handful of them, because they have learned that that's all they'll sell.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

Well, GM already this to some extent with the C5 Corvette. In 1999 they rolled out he "FRC" (Fixed Roof Coupe). This car was not exactly a "stripped" car in that it had the standard creature comforts for that time. It was lighter and cheaper than the standard coupe with the targa. It didn't sell, so in 2001 it got the LS6, 1st gen magnetic suspension and titamium exhaust as was labeled as a "track car", priced higher than the standard coupe and they couldn't build enough of them. However, it was only a few grand ore than the standard Corvette, not 10's of thousands.

However, using the Corvette line up, among the most successful cars in that line up has been the Grand Sport in both the C6 and the C7. All of the Z06 goodies except for the engine and in the case of C6 offered the automatic transmission. Priced right in the middle of the Z06 and the base coupe, it sells very well. This generation of Camaro seems to offer a model in relation with it's Corvette sibling

Camaro Corvette
SS Base Coupe
1LE Z51
-- Grand Sport
ZL1 Z06
ZL1-1LE Z06 w/ Z07 pkg
-- ZR1

If they make a Z/28, it's going to fill one of those two empty spaces. It will either be a N/A engine (LT1, LT6) in the ZL1-1LE configuration, or it will be a ZL1-1LE powered by the LT5.

If they put the LT5 in the Z1LE, I could see them doing a track focused stripper model and only make a handful of them, because they have learned that that's all they'll sell.

That corvette was the 5th gen Z06, it wasn't stripped and wasn't a pure track focused car like many here say the Z/28 needs to be. That's kind of apples to oranges IMO.

I'd also say the 1LE is more akin to the Grand sport. The 1LE is everything the ZL1 is minus the LT4. The Grand Sport is everything the Z06 is less the LT4.

[RedonBlackRS]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

If they make a Z/28, it's going to fill one of those two empty spaces. It will either be a N/A engine (LT1, LT6) in the ZL1-1LE configuration, or it will be a ZL1-1LE powered by the LT5.

If they put the LT5 in the Z1LE, I could see them doing a track focused stripper model and only make a handful of them, because they have learned that that's all they'll sell.

What they should do is just make the LT5 standard in the ZL1 models to keep up with the Hellcat Widebodies and Shelby GT500s of the world... Or at least offer it as a reasonably priced option.

[FNxR3DNECK]

Originally Posted by RedonBlackRS

What they should do is just make the LT5 standard in the ZL1 models to keep up with the Hellcat Widebodies and Shelby GT500s of the world... Or at least offer it as a reasonably priced option.

Based on the description of everything that they changed on the T5 (from the LT4) it's probably a VERY expensive unit. In crate form the LT4 is only a few thousand $ more than an LT1, I would expect the LT5 to be much more, potentially close to the cost of an LS9 which is like $26k if I recall correctly, compared to apx. $14k for an LT4, the LT5 could be in the $20-25k range so if they offer the LT5 in the ZL1 expect it to come with at least $5-10k option price, especially since it will certainly need different/bigger inter-coolers than the LT4. I hope Chevy does offer it as an option for the ZL1 for 2019, and I think it could happen now that Ford has confirmed that the GT500 will be over 700HP.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by Smokin15

A lot of good comments here on this thread but, one thing keeps popping up in my head.

For a track car does it need all the amenities like that on the ZL1/1LE. If the current 1LE was stripped down like my 15' Z/28, I wonder how much weight would be shaved off.

I just can't see a track car needing all those creature comforts. Which begs another question. Maybe GM sees this also and using the 14'-15' model as an example will make a TRUE Z/28 track car without all the extras that aren't needed. That would make the car come in at less money than the 1LE and being lighter, faster around the track. Do you really listen to the stereo while racing? Is your AC on pulling engine power while racing? All that weight comes at a cost in lap time.

To start, any production car has to meet certain federal law requirements for safety. Having a stereo is one of these things, this is why the 5th Gen Z/28 had a headunit/1 speaker. They could of course alter the headunit feature to reduce weight/still meet the requirements for safety.

Look, I get it, you want a lighter car....but I don't think you really get it either....there isn't much extra weight to ditch. The Viper ACR that went 7:01 weighs 3374. That's almost 500lbs lighter than the ZL1 1LE. Even if you ditch the interior seats for lighter ones, pull the compressor, and perhaps go with lighter wheels, you're still not getting 500lbs of weight out of that car.

The Mercedes AMG GT-R, weighs in at roughly 3650, which isn't that much lighter than the ZL1-1LE. It went only 6 seconds faster than the ZLE too.

Short of throwing some serious weight reduction at places like the hood, trunk, quarter panels with CF, I just don't see any major places to reduce that much unsprung weight.

Additionally, I do think the ZLE can still go faster around the track. It's actually not about the power. There is plenty of power in the car. I almost want to say that the aero may be just a tad too much..

[SamHouseIII]

What if we're all wrong? What if they went back to true roots?

The name Z/28 will be forever linked with the Chevrolet Camaro. In reality, it was a simple three digit, alphanumeric GM sales code for a "Special Performance Package" that was introduced in December 1966.

GM wanted to challenge the Mustang on all fronts, SCCA included.

They created a stroker and a new engine platform.

What if they did that again?

6.2 with a 7.0 crank, boosted with ZR1 components?

ZR1 engine complete?

What if they took a 7.0L LS7 and de-stroked it, an N/A engine with 8000rpm limit...

Lightened up the Gen 6 more?

New Gen DSSV shocks? (Like Colorado based ones or even totally brand new)

Carbon Ceramic rotors.

What about putting in the best GM has to offer to kill all these specialty cars, Hell Cat, Demon, GT-350, GT-500. How many would jump on the GM band wagon then? Sales, making money, its the bottom line.

What about the software? Mode selection Z/28!! and all hell is unleased.

Oh we of little mind...Dream and dream big, for there is so many ways this can go down...