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Old 12-06-2016, 08:00 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL View Post
Spoke with Carbotech today.

The Front pad is the same as the C7 Z06 (iron disc).

That means CT1405 works. XP8/10/12/20 available. Carbotech does not recommend the XP20 for our car on street tires. The pad will out-brake the tire.

I am still waiting to hear about Hawk. But I know they have basically every compound option for the C7 Z06.

I prefer Hawk, so right now the plan is DTC-60 for track, DTC-30 for AutoX and HPS for street.

BTW - The dealership parts department couldn't even find a part# for OEM pads.

Stock rotors (Front) MSRP for $674.
Part#
23142500 (R)
23189768 (L)

GMpartsdirect.com has them for $377.
Good info, thanks...
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Old 12-06-2016, 08:51 AM   #16
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updated original post with info...
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Old 12-06-2016, 09:11 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by backeddy View Post
First set lasted 4 days.....2nd set almost the rest of the year. Difference: bedding them properly. It is hard on you, the car, the police, the neighbors etc. but boy is it worth it.
Do you swap pads before and after events? If so are you rebedding the pads each time?
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:46 AM   #18
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Do you swap pads before and after events? If so are you rebedding the pads each time?
Yes, I swap pads pre and post race.

One of the benefits to using a Hawk street and race pad is you do not need to sand/re-bed the rotor with the different pad.

You can drive any Hawk compound over any other Hawk compound without worry.

When I tried going from OEM to Carbotech and then back to OEM, I had to sand the glazed material off the rotor and then re-bed for street use.
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Old 12-06-2016, 12:14 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backeddy View Post
First set lasted 4 days.....2nd set almost the rest of the year. Difference: bedding them properly. It is hard on you, the car, the police, the neighbors etc. but boy is it worth it.
I did follow the bedding procedures and I am pretty sure my friends did as well

Have you ever tried Raybestos pads (ST43 or ST45) or better yet, had a chance to compare with them ?
If not, it's well worth to give it a shot, IMO.

Carbotech pads simply cannot keep up with the Raybestos pads when it comes to stopping power, resistance to brake fade, longevity and ability to use on the street due to operating temps

Not so many makers (if any) post the actual friction values and operating temps
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Here's a link for more detail
http://www.raybestosbrakes.com/magno...cing-pads.html

Last edited by glamcem; 12-06-2016 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 12-06-2016, 01:23 PM   #20
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All great info.
Although I have 2SS, I'm going to put on 6 piston calipers once I'm done with pads/rotors I have.

I knew about the pad size being same as Z06/GS or ATS-V, but rotors for $377 at GMpartsguy.com is great info.
When I'm ready to go with 6 piston, I know where I'm getting rotors from.
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Old 12-06-2016, 04:06 PM   #21
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I never took the Carbotechs off, just left them on for street as well, only minor noise at slow speed. And i was not kidding about the rotors glowing orange.....I have only ever seen a few people do it "properly", those who were lazy included my friend who was a Nascar star and team owner....Maybe I should give him a "crying towel".
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Old 12-06-2016, 04:54 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glamcem View Post
I did follow the bedding procedures and I am pretty sure my friends did as well

Have you ever tried Raybestos pads (ST43 or ST45) or better yet, had a chance to compare with them ?
If not, it's well worth to give it a shot, IMO.

Carbotech pads simply cannot keep up with the Raybestos pads when it comes to stopping power, resistance to brake fade, longevity and ability to use on the street due to operating temps

...
It's good to find something you like, but your enthusiasm is getting the best of you. Especially with comments like the bolded one, which are marketing hyperbole at best. There's no reason to diss one of the best pad brands out there to simply say you like what you run.

Of the Raybestos pads, my favorite is the ST-43, and overall I found it "tolerable" despite its hunger for disc wear. That said, I haven't run it in over a decade, the marketplace and the benchmark has moved onward. Now there are many better pads out there. There are so many Carbotech (now G-Loc) fans because they're actually that good.
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Old 12-06-2016, 05:06 PM   #23
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Something else to consider is literally all the track reviews do not complain about the brake pads, barring an off-hand comment by Randy Pobst without any further explanation.

The stock pads might actually be quite good. It'll be interesting to see how they benchmark against known good track pads like the Hawk DTC-70, G-Loc R18, Cobalt XR1, Wilwood A, and so forth.

For those that are only doing a couple HPDE's a year, the stock SS 1LE pads might actually be acceptable. I'd at least try them out before buying something else.
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Old 12-06-2016, 05:14 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Ryephile View Post
It's good to find something you like, but your enthusiasm is getting the best of you. Especially with comments like the bolded one, which are marketing hyperbole at best. There's no reason to diss one of the best pad brands out there to simply say you like what you run.

Of the Raybestos pads, my favorite is the ST-43, and overall I found it "tolerable" despite its hunger for disc wear. That said, I haven't run it in over a decade, the marketplace and the benchmark has moved onward. Now there are many better pads out there. There are so many Carbotech (now G-Loc) fans because they're actually that good.
but how? .. I am not dissing but just sharing my own experience in the bolded sentence, FYI I am not affiliated with any of the two, lol. Stating a simple fact is not dissing the other brand and there is no polite way to say one is doing a better job than the other..especially when/if others have similar results. I never said Carbotechs are POS or not worth the money..

I had a chance to compare Carbotechs (XP12s) with ST43 (same car, same tire, same track with similar conditions) and immediately noticed that ST43s do a better job (as it did with my previous cars) except maybe the noise level (not a whole a lot but Carbotechs were less noisy I think). Please do share those "better" pads and how you define "better"?
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Old 12-06-2016, 05:24 PM   #25
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... and immediately noticed that ST43s do a better job (as it did with my previous cars) except maybe the noise level (not a whole a lot but Carbotechs were less noisy I think). Please do share what are those "better" pads and how you define "better"?
Ok, how do *you* define "better"? Read my previous post for what I think are known good pads.

I think the takeaway here is there are different pads for different drivers. You like ST-43's, got it. From my not-too-frequent HPDE instructing, I've noticed that less experienced drivers tend to either under-use or over-use their brakes, and how they misapply their pedal leads them to prefer certain pads in terms of initial bite and modulation and overall mu. Everyone, regardless of skill level, has a preferred pedal effort level, and that's going to impact hydraulic ratios and even pedal ratio, though the latter is rarely adjustable. In any case, finding what pad *you* like is more important than trying to pitch your favorite pad to everyone else without knowing what they like.

Not everyone has the luxury to try out 20 different compounds to find what fits their brake system and their personal preferences. This is why I'm recommending we give the stock pads the benefit of a doubt; they might not suck as much as some are assuming.
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Old 12-06-2016, 05:44 PM   #26
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Ok, how do *you* define "better"? Read my previous post for what I think are known good pads.
well you reply fast
I've just seen your 2nd post with the pads of your choice, while I was replying to your first message. I would never run those corrosive DTC 60 or DTC 70 on my cars but that's just me of course

Quote:
I think the takeaway here is there are different pads for different drivers. You like ST-43's, got it. From my not-too-frequent HPDE instructing, I've noticed that less experienced drivers tend to either under-use or over-use their brakes, and how they misapply their pedal leads them to prefer certain pads in terms of initial bite and modulation and overall mu. Everyone, regardless of skill level, has a preferred pedal effort level, and that's going to impact hydraulic ratios and even pedal ratio, though the latter is rarely adjustable. In any case, finding what pad *you* like is more important than trying to pitch your favorite pad to everyone else without knowing what they like.
exactly, that's the reason why I added "when it comes to stopping power, resistance to brake fade, longevity and ability to use on the street due to operating temps " if you bolded the rest of the sentence you would notice I share my opinion in the context since "good" is a vague term. But since the thread topic is about "track pads", things come to mind are : "longevity, cost, fade resistance, initial bite, stopping power" this may not be the case for everyone of course, I am willing to bet you it's the case for many track junkies at least for the ones I had conversation with

Quote:
Not everyone has the luxury to try out 20 different compounds to find what fits their brake system and their personal preferences. This is why I'm recommending we give the stock pads the benefit of a doubt; they might not suck as much as some are assuming.
I have to disagree here, if you calculate the cost of the pads and risks of having a brake fade (and ultimately the chance of total loss at the track environment,), it makes a lot of sense to have another set of pads. A pad that can last forever in street environment may not last more than a couple of events. This is counter-productive for someone who's trying to save money on consumables ..I would at least get a slightly more robust option. Same can be said for some street tires as well but I bet you know about this
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:13 PM   #27
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I would never run those corrosive DTC 60 or DTC 70 on my cars but that's just me of course
I think you meant 'abrasive' not 'corrosive'. Stopping power is a measure of how abrasive a pad is. It's the nature of the beast.

If you'll note, the pad you mention, the ST-43, has a 'hot (1200F) MU of .38. The DTC-70 is .85.

That's the only quantifiable number in that document you posted. The rest is totally subjective 'ad-speak'.

BTW - pretty much everyone posts the info you tout as only coming from Raybestos.

http://www.tirerack.com/images/pdf/p...und-Charts.pdf

Driving styles are different. I have personally used Hawk and Carbotech and think they are both great products.

I am just trying to pass on info on what fits these cars when people begin to track them.

If you like, we could start arguing about brake fluids next.
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:32 PM   #28
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If you like, we could start arguing about brake fluids next.
Ready... go!
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