[JhonnyGTR]

Originally Posted by JhonnyGTR

I think there's something you're not understanding, what BlackWhole is trying to say is that when GM (Camaro or Corvette) raise the bar and outperform the competition (which is usually significantly), they do not seek to do anything until the Next Generation. It's called "Do it right the first day and you will not have to improve it the following week"

Obviously Camaro responds, but does not have to do it several times during their respective generation (and we talk about responding by increasing horsepower or other technical changes), Reasons? Martin mentioned them yesterday.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

I summarized what your reply was, I didn't twist any words. You said they introduce the upgraded version 1 or 2 years after the introduction of the generation. There's another sum up. Anyway, yes, Ford has had to answer to the Camaro increases. But you're in denial, still, because at the same time GM has had to answer to the Mustang improvements, and I have given very specific examples, yet you still can't see it, so how can this be an intelligent conversation? It's not one sided, both sides have had to answer to a previous version:

2010 SS - Ford answered with 412 hp 2011 Gen 1 Coyote (slightly short on power compared to the SS)
2011 GT500 (answer to nothing - Ford just put out a very powerful car even thought the top SS was 426 hp) - Chevy answered with 30 more hp 2012 ZL1
Boss 302 LS track package - my understanding is Chevy answered with the Z28
2012 Z28 - Ford answered with the GT350R
2013 GT500 - Ford's answer to the 2012 ZL1. Chevy basically had NO answer to this 662 hp monster. Until, 4 years later...
2016 GT350R - Chevy answers with 2017 ZL1 - Chevy's answer to the 2013 GT500 and the GT350R (power, handling). Chevy's attempt to kill two birds with one stone, although they didn't kill the acceleration part of the GT500 even though they had 4 years to do so, and the ZL1 had a lot more power so it was slightly faster than the GT350R around a track. GT350R is no doubt a serious handling car, as is the ZL1 (and later esp. the ZLE).
2015 Mustang GT - 435 hp (slightly more power than the 2015 SS) and new design; Chevy responded with the 2016 Gen 6 SS with 455 hp.
Gen 6 SS - Ford answers with 2018 Mustang GT PP1, then later PP2, answer to the SS 1LE.
2018 ZLE - Ford answers with the 2020 GT500 (with track package)
2020 GT500 - Chevy must answer....?

There's several cars Camaro has had to answer to: 2011 GT500, Boss 302 LS, 2013 GT500, 2015 Mustang GT (whether you believe it or not), 2016 GT350R, and now the 2020 GT500 (wait and see, but my guess is Chevy will have to answer). They are taking turns, if you couldn't tell. That's how competition works.

To be fair, Ford has had to answer to the 2010 SS, 2012 ZL1, 2014 Z28, Gen 6 SS, and ZL1/ZLE.

How you think Chevy never has to answer to what Ford does is beyond me, with the above examples clearly given.

None of this gibberish is even worth replying too.

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Deny what? I'm pretty sure the GT500 was developed at the ring. Has nothing to do with Ford not posting lap times.

That's correct. When the 350R beat the Z28 by 5 seconds at the ring back in 2015 Ford said nothing and if the GT500 beats the ZL1 they will say nothing.

Did I miss official Ring times for the C7 Z06?

Right. Because it took an entirely new platform with more HP to beat an outgoing lesser HP Camaro. But the Shelbys started catching on fire, they all had to be recalled, and all the problems and issues with the entire S550 platform delayed the GT500 and caused the entire Gen to be extended a full year. Congrats Ford.

Anyway, why is Ford soo happy to brag about quarter mile runs but hesitant to run the GT500 on a track? It seems to me that Chevy pushes for their cars to be raced hard on the track while Ford seems to always be hesitant about it.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Ford has stated this time and time again, it's nothing new from them. Nurburgring lap times are horseshit due to the number of variables in track conditions and the fact that manufacturers cheat constantly. The car will be tested by 3rd party at VIR and LS by C&D and Randy.

Its delusional to think that the Ring lap time plays any part daily driving, it is a marketing ploy. No different than Dodge running the Demon down the 1/4 boasting 9.65 times in a commercial. What it does do is get folks to think they can become Ring kings, or Strip stars to run out and buy the car. I put a lot more stock into MT and LL track reviews.

[collinms]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Its delusional to think that the Ring lap time plays any part daily driving, it is a marketing ploy. No different than Dodge running the Demon down the 1/4 boasting 9.65 times in a commercial. What it does do is get folks to think they can become Ring kings, or Strip stars to run out and buy the car. I put a lot more stock into MT and LL track reviews.

So I guess we should just forget about the track we have all seen being the benchmark for what, 30 years, just because a new mustang comes out? Makes sense I guess. The reason they posted the quarter mile times is because it's faster than the ZL1. And who cares about the Zo6? We are talking camaro here. If you are so vested in Randy Pobst, he even said the Camaros put the power down better and basically said the alpha platform handles better than corvette. This was before the ZR1 I think though.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by collinms

So I guess we should just forget about the track we have all seen being the benchmark for what, 30 years, just because a new mustang comes out? Makes sense I guess. The reason they posted the quarter mile times is because it's faster than the ZL1. And who cares about the Zo6? We are talking camaro here. If you are so vested in Randy Pobst, he even said the Camaros put the power down better and basically said the alpha platform handles better than corvette. This was before the ZR1 I think though.

The only tracks or tests that matter are the ones that Ford participates in.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Its delusional to think that the Ring lap time plays any part daily driving, it is a marketing ploy. No different than Dodge running the Demon down the 1/4 boasting 9.65 times in a commercial. What it does do is get folks to think they can become Ring kings, or Strip stars to run out and buy the car. I put a lot more stock into MT and LL track reviews.

You put stock in LL reviews. Didn’t the z28 beat the 350r by a lot?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

You put stock in LL reviews. Didn’t the z28 beat the 350r by a lot?

The only reviews that count are the ones where the 6th Gen GT350R beats the 5th Gen Z28...

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

None of this gibberish is even worth replying too.



Right. Because it took an entirely new platform with more HP to beat an outgoing lesser HP Camaro. But the Shelbys started catching on fire, they all had to be recalled, and all the problems and issues with the entire S550 platform delayed the GT500 and caused the entire Gen to be extended a full year. Congrats Ford.

Anyway, why is Ford soo happy to brag about quarter mile runs but hesitant to run the GT500 on a track? It seems to me that Chevy pushes for their cars to be raced hard on the track while Ford seems to always be hesitant about it.

Yeah... it caught on fire, has NVH like a model T, poor panel fit, no 8" Nav or HUD, had 3 more WHP , got recalled and still beat the living shit out of the best track Camaro Chevy had at the Ring and Ford said nothing.

Where did Ford brag about 1/4 mile times for the GT500? by claiming <3.5 seconds to 60 and a 1/4 under 11's? That's bragging? They gave no specifics...see the trend? 2013 GT500 did 0-60 in 3.5 and it was a stick...thats a laughable # for a 10sec car.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

You put stock in LL reviews. Didn’t the z28 beat the 350r by a lot?

0.9. The 500 will run the LL , just as every other Mustang has, but it won't be sponsored by Ford just as it wont be sponsored to run the Ring.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by newmoon

No different than Dodge running the Demon down the 1/4 boasting 9.65 times in a commercial. What it does do is get folks to think they can become Ring kings, or Strip stars to run out and buy the car.

Well, in the Demon's case it worked because 3000 suckers ran out and bought a low 10 second car thinking they could run a 9.65 in it...pure genius marketing.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

None of this gibberish is even worth replying too.

The response of someone who knows they have nothing.

[Rodan]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

The response of someone who knows they have nothing.

It's all you trolls that have nothing...

No horsepower numbers.

No weight.

No price.

No track times.

Just a couple of unsubstantiated claims posted by Ford "insiders", who were likely instructed to do so to create internet buzz about the GT500.

And a bunch of pointless arguing about who needs to respond to who and when.

GMAFB.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by Rodan

It's all you trolls that have nothing...

No horsepower numbers.

No weight.

No price.

No track times.

Just a couple of unsubstantiated claims posted by Ford "insiders", who were likely instructed to do so to create internet buzz about the GT500.

And a bunch of pointless arguing about who needs to respond to who and when.

GMAFB.

HAHA, BlaqWhole is the one who kept beating the "who responds to who" dead horse - in this and nearly every thread. Claiming Chevy never has to respond to Ford. I was simply proving him wrong, which was easy.

Regarding the GT500 - time will tell. We're not claiming any victories over the ZL1/ZLE yet, just predicting one.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

The response of someone who knows they have nothing.

If that's what you wanna think then enjoy.

I fully explained what I had to say and you glossed over it with gibberish. So there was no need to break down every incorrect or ill-conceived statement you wrote. It would have taken too long. Plus, you came here from M6G and jumped right on this post and the only reason you're here is to berate the Camaro. You aren't the first to do so and you won't be the last. So there's no point in debating you anyway. If someone went to M6G in such an obvious manner just looking to argue they would be booted. So I just choose not to engage in debating any of you anymore because there will be others just like you. Besides all it does is takes the thread off track. Third, you don't even know when the Z28 was first available in the 5th Gen...so why should I waste time debating something with someone who isn't fully informed?? That about sums it (and you) up.