[NeverDie]

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

"Investors, of course, are looking further into the future than most consumers are, and guessing about changes that haven’t happened yet. Most people who buy a car during the next five years will buy a gas-powered vehicle. Electrics still have premium prices and are inconvenient for long trips, which have to be structured around charging opportunities. They’re still nowhere near as convenient as gas models that can be fueled at almost every highway exit in five minutes.

But changes at the laboratory and factory level will presage changes in the showroom. With investors viewing internal-combustion powertrains as a dying technology, there’s likely to be little new investment, with research dollars flowing instead to the electrification efforts investors value. That will speed innovation and lower costs. Charging stations will proliferate and get faster, minimizing the inconvenience of electrics. At some crossover point, gas stations will start to disappear, and electric cars will start to seem like the obvious choice for just about everybody. Whenever that happens, it will be the wrong time to be hawking V-6 and V-8 engines."

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https://finance.yahoo.com/news/gasol...210636353.html

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Yikes. Well here are your choices folks(all $40K plus):





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If you have 10 million dollars:

All $40K plus, huh?

VW ID.4 is $32,495 after federal tax credits.
BMW i3 base is $36,950 after federal tax credits.
Chevrolet Bolt is $32,890 BEFORE federal tax credits with current incentives.
Tesla Model 3: SR+ is $37,990 BEFORE federal tax credits.

All pricing pulled directly from each manufacturer's website just now.

[Malbjey]

Originally Posted by NeverDie

All $40K plus, huh?

VW ID.4 is $32,495 after federal tax credits.
BMW i3 base is $36,950 after federal tax credits.
Chevrolet Bolt is $32,890 BEFORE federal tax credits with current incentives.
Tesla Model 3: SR+ is $37,990 BEFORE federal tax credits.

All pricing pulled directly from each manufacturer's website just now.

Isn't it funny? There are plenty of people on this site who paid 40k plus for a car they only use as a weekend toy.

[StingrayblueSS]

https://youtu.be/k_Nt2QPgVVE pretty good commercial.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by vtirocz

The data being referenced was obviously nationwide across the US, where in 2019, coal was the source of 23% of the total US electricity that was generated. That # is falling at a fast rate (see the plot in that link).

Well if its no longer coal then you can believe that Fossil fuels like in the Keystone Pipeline has taken its place. Biden just killed that and wants to go back to foreign oil dependence. Look for skyrocketing fuel prices at the pump heating our homes and higher electricity. Absolutely pathetic.

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by NeverDie

VW ID.4 is $32,495 after federal tax credits.

I am giving MSRP prices, Volkswagen ID.4 comes as edition 1 model in the states in the beginning, with $45,190 MSRP. Cheapest variant is $41,190. AWD version will be $44,890.

Federal tax credits will not be here forever. Actually they expire in 2022 unless Congress renews them. After sale of 200,000 units, the tax credit winds down until it fully expires one year later.

BMW i3 base is $36,950 after federal tax credits.

BMW i3 MSRP is $44,450.

Tesla Model 3: SR+ is $37,990 BEFORE federal tax credits.

You can no longer get any federal tax credits on Tesla's. Base standard RWD model with 250 mile range does cost that much. The AWD version starts at $40K.

I put the Bolt to showcase the design language of these new EV's, I am aware it is the most affordable option out of the bunch. Should have clarified that.

That being said, they are all ugly and inferior to many other ICE options. Why would someone be excited about these prices for inferior products?

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by StingrayblueSS

https://youtu.be/k_Nt2QPgVVE pretty good commercial.

After watching this Hollyweed commercial, I gots to git me an EV now!!!

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by Malbjey

Isn't it funny? There are plenty of people on this site who paid 40k plus for a car they only use as a weekend toy.

Are you comparing small econo CUV's with fully optioned sports cars with superior suspension parts, tuning, and performance equipment? I would always take a 40K Camaro V8 over an EV econobox in a base configuration.

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by MackSteelPrivateEye

After watching this Hollyweed commercial, I gots to git me an EV now!!!

You'd be surprised how many consumers are lining up to reserve a Volkswagen ID.4 that costs 45K and has a range of 250 miles, because they want to be the first people in them so they can show it off to their friends. You can get a Golf GTI for half that price and it will be superior in every way. I don't get people.

[Petrol Head]

Norwegians eat raw shark meat that’s been fermenting in barns.

This is America. We eat steak and burgers grilled on the grille. Who cares how many electric cars they sell?

And that new GM logo is awful.

#notmygm

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

Are you comparing small econo CUV's with fully optioned sports cars with superior suspension parts, tuning, and performance equipment? I would always take a 40K Camaro V8 over an EV econobox in a base configuration.

That's exactly the point. The EV equivalent of an ICE vehicle, as it stands now, is more expensive to purchase.

The fuel cost will take a while to offset, depending on where you live.

But remember, no one cross-shops a Bolt or ID4 with a Camaro or Mustang. Not even a lot of people would cross-shop a Model 3 with a pony car. Different audience entirely.

Sent from toaster or something

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

That's exactly the point. The EV equivalent of an ICE vehicle, as it stands now, is more expensive to purchase.

The fuel cost will take a while to offset, depending on where you live.

But remember, no one cross-shops a Bolt or ID4 with a Camaro or Mustang. Not even a lot of people would cross-shop a Model 3 with a pony car. Different audience entirely.

Sent from toaster or something

Agreed, I was surprised by him comparing them to a Camaro. No one would cross shop them but looking at it from value perspective you are getting more for your 40K going towards a Camaro SS. As I said, if there are EV equivalents to ICE affordable sports coupes/sedans/hatchbacks, then EV's would have a case and we can let free market decide. Problem is the market will not provide them until at least 2030, if even. However, government regulation may force us out of ICE sports vehicles before 2035, by various means mentioned by other posters here. And we will have to get one of these EV econoboxes instead of comparable ICE luxury sedan or sports cars.

[Martinjlm]

Electric sports cars are coming. The cadence has been like:

1. Penalty boxes small enough to get half decent range using 1st gen battery tech
2. Luxury sedans big enough to hold a crap ton of batteries and expensive enough to “hide” the cost
3. More useable small crossovers with 200+ mile range on 2nd gen batteries
4. Big @$$ pick ‘em up trucks with 100 kWh batteries, ‘cause ‘Murica
5. High performance sports cars and exotics with 3rd gen, high power density batteries

Of course, Tesla operates outside of this cadence, because they just dove right in with large luxury sedans and worked their way down the value chain instead of up.

Right now we are witnessing the 3rd and 4th items playing out. The 5th item starts seeing product in the ‘25-‘26 timeframe.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

....
But remember, no one cross-shops a Bolt or ID4 with a Camaro or Mustang. Not even a lot of people would cross-shop a Model 3 with a pony car. Different audience entirely.

Sent from toaster or something

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

Agreed, I was surprised by him comparing them to a Camaro. No one would cross shop them but looking at it from value perspective you are getting more for your 40K going towards a Camaro SS. As I said, if there are EV equivalents to ICE affordable sports coupes/sedans/hatchbacks, then EV's would have a case and we can let free market decide. Problem is the market will not provide them until at least 2030, if even. However, government regulation may force us out of ICE sports vehicles before 2035, by various means mentioned by other posters here. And we will have to get one of these EV econoboxes instead of comparable ICE luxury sedan or sports cars.

I know one of the guys who broke the “Mustang going EV in ‘28” story. He traded his Chevy SS for a Tesla Model 3 Performance because...faster. Only one data point, but a really interesting data point.

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I know one of the guys who broke the “Mustang going EV in ‘28” story. He traded his Chevy SS for a Tesla Model 3 Performance because...faster. Only one data point, but a really interesting data point.

To be honest when I think performance I think handling/sporty dynamics. It does not need always require mind boggling amounts of power. A Fiat 124 Spider is a more fun car to drive than anything Tesla makes. I don't consider anything Tesla offers to be a sports car. Putting more motors to have 1,000HP plus is a lazy approach to driving fun. It will make a lot of people barf thanks to the instant torque as well. There is no need for 1,200 hp ev cars, especially by a company like Tesla, except to kill the idea of what a sports car should be.

Tesla wants to kill sports car competition by making big numbers and wowing naive consumers who are involved in a ____ measuring contest. It will force other manufacturers to make comparable heavy straight line rockets and will kill any affordable sports cars in with other sporty characteristics like being light weight, small, balanced, etc..

I will pray for your friend , though. And anyone else who buys a Tesla.