[motorhead]

Originally Posted by JhonnyGTR

I asked because some people that don't like the Refresh like to troll and don't have a good argument about the Why just like happened with the 16 Camaro and the 15 Mustang, and you knew What's was my answer about that the black bar was just enough? Not for me

You mean it isn't the argument you want to hear. That's pretty typical of the world these days

[JhonnyGTR]

Originally Posted by motorhead

You mean it isn't the argument you want to hear. That's pretty typical of the world these days

Yeah, I'm not going to lie, that's the reason

[JhonnyGTR]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

You're comparing styling to engines. Everything was slow in 1982.

I couldn't be more agree it's like compare orange to a Cobia (Fish)

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

You're comparing styling to engines. Everything was slow in 1982.

If people want to compare the refresh Camaro to a 4 door Charger and a full size pick up truck i can compare styling to engines . Speak for yourself as far as everything being slow in 1982 ,some people made there cars faster , but yeah not a proud time for HP from the factory .

[gringo]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

I would have to think you were not a Camaro fan back in 1982 when GM put the Iron Duke 4 cylinder in a Camaro , 0-60 in about 20 seconds , that gave ugly a whole new meaning . The Camaro hasn't always been a very likable car . The Camaro we have now is a dream across all levels , may not please everyone but thats not a bad thing .

The Mustang wasn't any better with it's 88hp Pinto based 2.3L 4 cyl . The 90hp Iron Duke 2.5L was the base engine on the Camaro in '82, but not very many people bought them from what I recall. I don't remember seeing that many on the road (back in the day) when I was a kid.

However, at least GM went up to the 135hp LB8 as the standard engine for '86. Ford kept that 2.3L Pinto based 4 cyl all the way up until the SN95's came out in '94. lol!

If we go back even further in time, the Camaro had either the old 230-250 cid inline 6 up until '80. So, the Camaro always had an "ugly" low powered base engine as standard equipment.

It wasn't until the 4th gens when the base engine started getting some respectable power gains. In '96, the base engine was now the 200hp L36 3800 Series II which was pretty stout at that time.

With the 5th gen and beyond, it's at a whole another level. What used to be highly regarded V8 power figures is now just a base LTG 4 cyl power rating.

Those 1982 Camaro's were not ugly though. They looked great and were beautifully styled and tastefully adorned, especially the Z28 models. Some would say timeless. In fact, I can't think of an ugly 3rd gen Camrao except for maybe the slightly tackier models for '91-'92 with that huge wing. However, we had the Firebird to make up for it during their much better looking (IMO) update for the '91-'92 model year.

[x55cam]

Originally Posted by gringo

The Mustang wasn't any better with it's 88hp Pinto based 2.3L 4 cyl . The 90hp Iron Duke 2.5L was the base engine on the Camaro in '82, but not very many people bought them from what I recall. I don't remember seeing that many on the road (back in the day) when I was a kid.

However, at least GM went up to the 135hp LB8 as the standard engine for '86. Ford kept that 2.3L Pinto based 4 cyl all the way up until the SN95's came out in '94. lol!

If we go back even further in time, the Camaro had either the old 230-250 cid inline 6 up until '80. So, the Camaro always had an "ugly" low powered base engine as standard equipment.

It wasn't until the 4th gens when the base engine started getting some respectable power gains. In '96, the base engine was now the 200hp L36 3800 Series II which was pretty stout at that time.

With the 5th gen and beyond, it's at a whole another level. What used to be highly regarded V8 power figures is now just a base LTG 4 cyl power rating.

Those 1982 Camaro's were not ugly though. They looked great and were beautifully styled and tastefully adorned, especially the Z28 models. Some would say timeless. In fact, I can't think of an ugly 3rd gen Camrao except for maybe the slightly tackier models for '91-'92 with that huge wing. However, we had the Firebird to make up for it during their much better looking (IMO) update for the '91-'92 model year.

Agreed about the 3rd gens, I have owned 2 and they are fun to drive. The 91/92's were definitely tacky.

I owned a '69 Camaro with a 250 and boy, did that motor really go. Something about a straight six that to this day BMW still uses.....

[x55cam]

Originally Posted by JhonnyGTR

I asked because some people that don't like the Refresh like to troll and don't have a good argument about the Why just like happened with the 16 Camaro and the 15 Mustang, and you knew What's was my answer about that the black bar was just enough? Not for me

I'm not a fanboy by any means, and I really want to like this new refresh - sometimes it takes me quite a bit of time - maybe months - to have a refresh grow on me enough to like it, like the 3rd gens for example.....but I just don't know about the 2019 SS. I was just starting to get used to the 6th gen changes, and now this?

Maybe Chevy's idea was to intentionally make this refresh ugly to push the sales of the 2018's?

It may work.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by JhonnyGTR

IMHO

What cracks me up is that you guys are trying to compare a car that didn't took a change from 2015 to date to a future 2019 car that changed from this year. Why when the 16 Camaro came out it didn't took a comperison with the 15-16 Charger SRT? Let's face it, take out the headlights and they look more alike than with the 19 Refresh (and I Follow my personal statement about the "even with that, they never going to look equal, not even close in each generation"), En Cambio they say that the Camaro looked like the 2015 Mustang... And that's was pathetic like now, but teach me something:

People (not all) is going to use whichever pathetic excuse to make their statement (Opinions but some of they try to be God acting like they're saying the absolute truth) more "valid", NO MATTER HOW. For me that's pathetic, you don't need to compare two thing to make a point on why you don't like one, you just need to say why you don't like it and that's your opinion a we should respect that.

On the side of "I don't like the car because looks like another" come on, if the other car is ugly too it is own business, your "ugly car to blame" doesn't need to be in the equation nor the other too. And, there were many cars in the past time That were too similar (More like now) and people weren't mad about it... Or I don't remember about someone Crying about a 1930 Bentley that looked like a 1930 Rolls Royce.

This is not about only you, it's general speaking.

I know its not about me. Im not the one trying to compare it to the Charger. That was the entire point of my post. My reasons for not liking it have been pretty clear aross this entire fourm to the point that I was chastised for stating them too often.
And quite frankly, why in the hell should someone have to justify their reason for not liking it to you or anyone else for that matter? Just because they only state they dont like it and not write a three page report for you to feel satisfied doesnt mean they are trolls. Dont keep starting threads like this and people will stop talking about not liking the 19 SS since it seems to bother you so much. Its a car. Its not like its a newborn and folks are telling the parents their kid is ugly. That would be down right cruel.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by gringo

The Mustang wasn't any better with it's 88hp Pinto based 2.3L 4 cyl . The 90hp Iron Duke 2.5L was the base engine on the Camaro in '82, but not very many people bought them from what I recall. I don't remember seeing that many on the road (back in the day) when I was a kid.

However, at least GM went up to the 135hp LB8 as the standard engine for '86. Ford kept that 2.3L Pinto based 4 cyl all the way up until the SN95's came out in '94. lol!

If we go back even further in time, the Camaro had either the old 230-250 cid inline 6 up until '80. So, the Camaro always had an "ugly" low powered base engine as standard equipment.

It wasn't until the 4th gens when the base engine started getting some respectable power gains. In '96, the base engine was now the 200hp L36 3800 Series II which was pretty stout at that time.

With the 5th gen and beyond, it's at a whole another level. What used to be highly regarded V8 power figures is now just a base LTG 4 cyl power rating.

Those 1982 Camaro's were not ugly though. They looked great and were beautifully styled and tastefully adorned, especially the Z28 models. Some would say timeless. In fact, I can't think of an ugly 3rd gen Camrao except for maybe the slightly tackier models for '91-'92 with that huge wing. However, we had the Firebird to make up for it during their much better looking (IMO) update for the '91-'92 model year.

I know many people that passed on the 1982 Camaro when it first came out, i ended up buying a 81 . I wouldn't call the 3rd gen ugly at all but they just didn't have that Camaro look i wanted ,so i didn't buy one . The 3rd and 4th gens i passed on for that reason and have owned at least one from every other generation . The good thing was during the 3rd and 4th gens the older Camaros were cheap ,kinda . One thing about the 3rd gens were that they sold well and brought new Camaro fans in ,and lost some old ones . Same thing is happening now with the refresh , a lot of what people have seen as a Camaro look in the front end is gone and they don't like it ,but it will bring new fans in .
On a side note the 1982 Camaro with the Iron Duke is know as one of the worst 50 cars ever made , that is ugly .

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by x55cam

I'm not a fanboy by any means, and I really want to like this new refresh - sometimes it takes me quite a bit of time - maybe months - to have a refresh grow on me enough to like it, like the 3rd gens for example.....but I just don't know about the 2019 SS. I was just starting to get used to the 6th gen changes, and now this?

Maybe Chevy's idea was to intentionally make this refresh ugly to push the sales of the 2018's?

It may work.

I don't think it would make much sense for Chevy to design what you call an ugly refresh and have to build and sell them for the next 2 or 3 years to help the sales of a car that is no longer being produced .

[JhonnyGTR]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I know its not about me. Im not the one trying to compare it to the Charger. That was the entire point of my post. My reasons for not liking it have been pretty clear aross this entire fourm to the point that I was chastised for stating them too often.
And quite frankly, why in the hell should someone have to justify their reason for not liking it to you or anyone else for that matter? Just because they only state they dont like it and not write a three page report for you to feel satisfied doesnt mean they are trolls. Dont keep starting threads like this and people will stop talking about not liking the 19 SS since it seems to bother you so much. Its a car. Its not like its a newborn and folks are telling the parents their kid is ugly. That would be down right cruel.

Looks like I need to clear more the water... Look, I don't have any problem with people being negative with the Refresh, it's a Shame, but that's part of the life we live, if that were the case then I would be harashing all the negative quotes here, that's the case?

The reason about this post is to compare the same car in one picture with different ages and facsias, tell which one look better to you and why, so I give you the chanse on be expresive and creative on why you don't like the other, or the opposite case... If you don't want to do that you can say nothing or say that you like the one you prefere and finish or just be funny negative, some people did that and I wasn't attacking for that, do I?

Now, in that quote that you answer, I said that because of the Charger Comparison that wasn't part of the thread, and You and Gen6_1le said what cracks you up, so I said what cracks me up In My Humble Opinion about that topic, I find it pathetic, period, but that's Just My Opinion So You shouldn't be bother by That, if you want to do that here Just do that, like I said in the second paragraph that You must Read.

I didn't say hard words, and now either, so You shouldn't be sensible by That.

[wavsine]

The refresh is a horse designed by a committee. Camels are not fun to look at. And even for those who are on the fence about the new look, you should not have to "give it time to grow on you." If the design sucks, it sucks. If you really like it, then buy one.

[AZCamaroFan]

i saw that list that had the 82 on it a few years ago. Some online article. Means nothing. You can go to yahoo everyday for meaningless articles. I'm pretty sure i can find more than 50 cars in history that are as underpowered as that 82' , but look and handle worse.

[keon718nyc]

Originally Posted by wavsine

And even for those who are on the fence about the new look, you should not have to "give it time to grow on you." If the design sucks, it sucks. If you really like it, then buy one.

True 100%, If you want it to grow on you then it may just not be that car for some. But if it stands out and your feeling it and thinking it will perfect for your situation and your brain, then just go for it and not look back like i will be doing on the 19'. Not matter how much bashing crap about it goes on these forums it won't make a difference to me and many, many others.