[1LE Red Dragon]

The new GT500 might be fast. *** But it will NEVER *** (I HIGHLY DOUBT) it will beat the ZLE around a race track. Even at 100k it wont beat the ZLE around the track. At best the Mustang platform is a GOOD handling car, NOT a great one.

[72MachOne99GT]

A car that handles like the GT350, has 200+ more HP, and an automatic will NEVER beat a ZL1-1LE around a track?

Mmmmmmmmm.....we’ll see.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by 1LE Red Dragon

The new GT500 might be fast. But it will NEVER beat the ZLE around a race track. Even at 100k it wont beat the ZLE around the track. At best the Mustang platform is a GOOD handling car, NOT a great one.

Personally, I would stop short of saying never. Ford may not be willing or able to invest in an Alpha-esque platform for the mainstream Mustang, but for a limited run vehicle like GT500 they could incorporate some of the technology and content that aftermarket outfitters use to create one-off track monsters. They are only limited by what they are able to certify in the NHTSA regulatory crash testing process.

[1LE Red Dragon]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

A car that handles like the GT350, has 200+ more HP, and an automatic will NEVER beat a ZL1-1LE around a track?

Mmmmmmmmm.....we’ll see.

CORRECT... Ford cant make the mustang chassis handle that much power and maintain its composure. I've had two, and tried to put every suspension and wheel part on them to make it be close to the old 2013 SS 1LE i had. Procharging it didn't help make things any more composed. Its the overall structure of the car, and Fords lack of prioritizing handling over straight line that will make my statement hold true.

If you give the GT350R 500 more hp, it still wont beat the ZLE. Its more than about power. Its about balance.

Ever try hard braking a 2015+ Ford Mustang GT from 140mph on a 2 lane back road.. Even with upgraded FRPP suspension kit, its down right scary. The same thing in a 5th gen 1LE or a 6th Gen SS is much more refined, and capable.

The GT500 will be a good/very good handling car, not a GREAT one. I stand by that. It wont be a world class handler like the ZLE.

[1LE Red Dragon]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Personally, I would stop short of saying never. Ford may not be willing or able to invest in an Alpha-esque platform for the mainstream Mustang, but for a limited run vehicle like GT500 they could incorporate some of the technology and content that aftermarket outfitters use to create one-off track monsters. They are only limited by what they are able to certify in the NHTSA regulatory crash testing process.

NEVER is a very hard word. And the old saying NEVER say NEVER is a good one. So I will revert my NEVER to a HIGHLY DOUBT...

BTW, I am not a Mustang Hater. I bought 2 of them after my 2013 SS 1LE. They were fun and fast, but scary with a ProCharger. IMO, people who want to go fast in straight line, the Mustang is your best bet. They are cheaper to make go fast. For people that like to go fast and turn the Camaro is the route to go. In my opinion the Camaro team has invested way more into handling than motor technology. The Ford team works on the motor technology and the handling is a second priority.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by 1LE Red Dragon

CORRECT... Ford cant make the mustang chassis handle that much power and maintain its composure. I've had two, and tried to put every suspension and wheel part on them to make it be close to the old 2013 SS 1LE i had. Procharging it didn't help make things any more composed. Its the overall structure of the car, and Fords lack of prioritizing handling over straight line that will make my statement hold true.

If you give the GT350R 500 more hp, it still wont beat the ZLE. Its more than about power. Its about balance.

Ever try hard braking a 2015+ Ford Mustang GT from 140mph on a 2 lane back road.. Even with upgraded FRPP suspension kit, its down right scary. The same thing in a 5th gen 1LE or a 6th Gen SS is much more refined, and capable.

The GT500 will be a good/very good handling car, not a GREAT one. I stand by that. It wont be a world class handler like the ZLE.

I actually hope that it won't, too many sacrifices in other areas in order to get a car to handle like the ZL1E. I suspect this is why so many go up for sale very shortly after initial purchase. The novelty wears off quickly.

The 500 needs to be more balanced like what the base ZL1 offers, very good handling, very good driver comfort, and a very capable 1/4 mile performer. If a track version is offered fine go after the ZL1E if not do not sacrifice all other aspects of the car to achieve Ring times.

[BlaqWhole]

Ford can make a vehicle that can beat a ZL1 1LE around a track. Just not at the same price, reliability, options, features, etc. Which is a shame considering they had 6 years to build it.

Regardless of what the GT500 does, I think it will disappoint people somehow. It will be 2020 and it'll have performance that would have been impressive in 2017. Just like the 18 GT had performance that would have been impressive back in 2015. These days you have Hellcats and Redeyes and ZL1s and Z06s hitting high 10s. It isn't anything that hasn't been seen or done by their competition many times over Ford will be the last one to do it. So by then it is old news. Which is why I said before that the only thing the GT500 can do that would be impressive is if it ran mid 10s. At that point it won't matter if it can beat the ZL1 1LE around a track or not. If it does low 11s...boring. The standard 650 HP $63K ZL1 does that. High 10s...snore, Redeyes do it and stock ZL1s have been doing it.So it has to jump over that limit. Just getting there isn't enough when everyone is already doing that and has been for what will be 3 or more years by the time it arrives.

[BlaqWhole]

Also since (according to these Mustang guys) a GT with "minor bolt-ons" easily hits low 11s and high 10s I think it would be a failure if that is as fast as it can go. Especially if it can't beat the ZL1 1LE. So for over $70K MSRP and over $10K in markups you'll have a 700+ HP GT500 that is as fast as a base A10 GT with "minor" bolt-ons in a straight line and can't beat a ZL1 1LE around a track. Might as well just get a GT at that point.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

A car that handles like the GT350, has 200+ more HP, and an automatic will NEVER beat a ZL1-1LE around a track?

Mmmmmmmmm.....we’ll see.

All they had to do was add 200 HP to the S197 Boss 302 package. It didn't translate as well to the 13 GT500 as you suggest. The added power wasn't proportional to increased lap times.

Adding weight, power and heat to the GT350 would change the whole thing

[72MachOne99GT]

Okay, fine.

Ford will release the next GT500. It’ll run 11.8s in the manual and 11.2s in an auto. The manual will start at 70K, automatic at 77k.

The Performance/Handling version will be over 80k to start and will barey outrun a standard ZL1.

[1LE Red Dragon]

I think this new G500 with 750 hp and a nice 10 speed auto, should run 10.5 to 10.7 range. This is based upon the fact that the 2018+ GT w/ full bolt ons run low 11's. I think that car will sell well and be a good upgrade from the GT350, and a worthy successor to the last GT500. The price I think is irrelevant considering most people that can afford these types of cars, and are car gurus, or Ford die hards, have plenty of money. Your GT buyer is not going to step up to this car. Your GT350 owner probably can afford to. The Ford got to have it guys are going to pay outrageous ADM to get them. The smart Ford guy waits to get one used in 6 months to a year when the next big thing comes out.

[ST1LE]

I am pretty confident the GT500 will be a beast in the quarter, and just as fast as the ZL1 around a track.

I don't think it will be nearly as composed or easy to drive fast as the ZL1, but it will be capable of matching times I think.

I am very curious to see of they release an R version, what they do there, and if they decide to chase the ZLE and how much more expensive than the GT350 does it have to be?

[FastCarFanBoy]

How many ZL1-1LE's has Chevy sold? 750? 1000?

Dodge sold 3000 Demon's in 1yr and could have sold many more. Silly of Ford to chase a car that so few want to own and that they would have to add content to when they could chase a car seemingly everyone wants to own and you can remove content to achieve you goal.

... Screw a ZLE competitor, give us a Drag Pack option like you could get in the 60's. Dodge has layed the groundwork and proven the concept is profitable.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

How many ZL1-1LE's has Chevy sold? 750? 1000?

Dodge sold 3000 Demon's in 1yr and could have sold many more. Silly of Ford to chase a car that so few want to own and that they would have to add content to when they could chase a car seemingly everyone wants to own and you can remove content to achieve you goal.

Well, while I still dont get the Mustang Guys argument about "sales being important in performance discussions", I do agree with your end conclusion that chasing the ZLE is pointless.

I know quite a few GT350 owners, with the exception of 1, none are real car guys. None know what it can and cant beat on the track, the OPG issues, engine issues, and no fix in sight, clueless on all of the important factors(as car guys) of the car.

They buy the car because it sounds and looks cool, and the same will go for the GT500, with the exception that it better compete at the 1/4 mile.

A 1/4 killer and boulevard bruiser are the only things this car needs to be to sell well, and for many that won't matter either.