[unavailablezl1]

I know I am repeating myself, but dumping the clutch to get a good 0-60 will only destroy your car's drivetrain. Learning how to do it "correctly" if you will, takes practice. Sure I got the bog until I practiced like with any car.

Car and Driver got the results and only said that it takes "skill" to get 3.7 for the manual.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...l-test-review/

[EDFHOBBIES]

All that got me was burnt clutch smell... the wifes car has 45k on and more power than OEM zl1 her clutch is fine still. If you rev it to 5k w slicks and it grabbed the clutch would most likely be least of the problems.

There description is to cut and dry.. they offer no technique advice step by step directions..

Also that doesn't explain starting normal and the motor bogging the tip in is always different I'm wondering if it's the data from the sec iat sensor in fender that messes with the timing.

And have some of us forgot the erratic rev match out of no where.. that was taken care of w my 1st tune 2 years ago I didn't even ask to fix it it just came back fixed after it was tuned for headers and a lower pulley.

[angryBits]

Originally Posted by Mike@SolerPerformanceLLC

Also, keep in mind, that Automatics have added built-in delays for the transmission to shift, like when coming to a stop and then accelerating we get about .5 seconds of zero torque commanded by the ECM. Traction control also does similarly until it figures out and equalizes torque to each wheel. etc.

There is a brief delay in the A10 under certain circumstances (as you'd expect) but its very easy to tell the difference between the automatic delay and the bog. They feel very different.

I've owned both the A10 and M6 version of this ZL1 1LE and the bog is present in both cars. The A10 is just less obvious because you're not managing the clutch. The computer knows how to drive this car the way GM intended.

EDIT:
The A10 delay has no throttle response for a moment (IMO it's only when not in combat mode and the transmission is busy shifting because you were off the throttle but then you decide to go)
The M6 bog response when you expect but it feels dampened for a moment.
THe A10 bog is less apparent on take off but more apparent when cruising at a high-gear then you step on it and theres a dampened input response for a moment before the transmission changes. I'm not talking about how the car is just in the wrong gear for a moment and doesn't have power -- it's more like the peddle is mushy. It's there but honestly it's not bad on the A10. If I wasn't looking for it from my past experience with the M6 I may not have noticed it.

[angryBits]

Originally Posted by Stingray_2014

I am still very new to my M6 ZL1, but it doesn't seem to have the get up and go I would expect from a stop. I am assuming this is the bog everybody is talking about? I don't like it either. If I mash the gas in 1st gear while launching, I want the car to instantly push my head back into the seat like my C7 did. The C7 with the M7 didn't have any bog, but it made a lot less power too. Frustrating as I will never tune any of my cars.

My 2017 C7 Z06 M7 definitely had this bog. I think it may have been introduced in 2017 because thats when the complaints started? (guessing)

The bog isn't a mistake, its already been clarified in another thread that the bog is designed to save the drivetrain from abuse. The problem is that we want to abuse the car.

The bigger problem is that the bog doesn't really present itself during a test drive because we don't want to flog the car during a test drive...

I always ask to test drive the car I'm going to buy, not some similar car, and I always flog it once or twice to make sure its not a lemon.

What's funny is, I detected the bog immediately in my Z06, and not from flogging, just from a normal stop-go, and the sales guy said, "Yeah these cars need more revs... its just how they made them". The car had power elsewhere so I passed it off as driver error.

With my M6 ZL1 I did not detect the problem until after break in. Not sure how that happened... Maybe I was used to it from the Z06?

[Stingray_2014]

Originally Posted by angryBits

My 2017 C7 Z06 M7 definitely had this bog. I think it may have been introduced in 2017 because thats when the complaints started? (guessing)

The bog isn't a mistake, its already been clarified in another thread that the bog is designed to save the drivetrain from abuse. The problem is that we want to abuse the car.

The bigger problem is that the bog doesn't really present itself during a test drive because we don't want to flog the car during a test drive...

I always ask to test drive the car I'm going to buy, not some similar car, and I always flog it once or twice to make sure its not a lemon.

What's funny is, I detected the bog immediately in my Z06, and not from flogging, just from a normal stop-go, and the sales guy said, "Yeah these cars need more revs... its just how they made them". The car had power elsewhere so I passed it off as driver error.

With my M6 ZL1 I did not detect the problem until after break in. Not sure how that happened... Maybe I was used to it from the Z06?

I also had an LT1 Z51 car, not a LT4 car like your Z06, so there could be some relationship there. Maybe the gearing in my Stingray was shorter which helped with launches. All I know is when I stomped on the gas in that car, there was no "bog" or whatever we call it; it just took off and was pretty easy to launch.

[jvandy50]

i'm actually less worried about being able to dump the clutch at 5k rpm than i am just pushing in the clutch and a quick blip and my shit almost dies(it actually has twice). when climbing into my garage (there's an incline) and modulating the clutch/throttle i can get 2-3 times where i push in the skinny pedal and nothing happens. that's way worse to me since i don't drag race this car and actually could be dangerous in the right situation...which surprises me in this lawsuit happy world we live in.

[jjgi5150]

Originally Posted by jvandy50

i'm actually less worried about being able to dump the clutch at 5k rpm than i am just pushing in the clutch and a quick blip and my shit almost dies(it actually has twice). when climbing into my garage (there's an incline) and modulating the clutch/throttle i can get 2-3 times where i push in the skinny pedal and nothing happens. that's way worse to me since i don't drag race this car and actually could be dangerous in the right situation...which surprises me in this lawsuit happy world we live in.

This is the sad truth of it all. It is a software issue, that is somewhat helped by a new/better throttle body....but will never be fixed without a software update. The factory will never do this unless forced to do so by civil litigation. Since this problem seems more noticable in the M6 cars, there doesn't appear to be enough people affected to jump into a class action suit.

I'm no software expert, but those who have re-tuned their cars have indicated the problem was gone....but at the cost of warranty.

Sad to love a car this much...and still have this embarrasing and actually dangerous in traffic situation to live with. I challenge GM to compare the Nurburgring car's software with mine....

A software change to fix this would really be an easy plug and play fix. A hell of a lot cheaper than what GM is gonna lose on the overheating Z06 Vette class action.


JMO....


JJ

[JonDaddy82]

Pretty simple. They sell a 650HP/650TQ car they let you drag race with a warranty that's valid *on track*. In order to sell a car that won't kill itself or it's drivetrain after repeated launches at that power level costing the company endless warranty claims for clutches, diffs, half shafts, etc...this is what you're going to get.

I certainly don't like it, but I get why it's there.

[Alain]

Originally Posted by JonDaddy82

Pretty simple. They sell a 650HP/650TQ car they let you drag race with a warranty that's valid *on track*. In order to sell a car that won't kill itself or it's drivetrain after repeated launches at that power level costing the company endless warranty claims for clutches, diffs, half shafts, etc...this is what you're going to get.

I certainly don't like it, but I get why it's there.

This is a great point !!! I’m just going to accept it and move on.

I only have two more years on my warranty on my 2018, once I do the headers and tune it I won’t have to deal with it !

I can’t wait.

[dbb143]

Originally Posted by Alain

This is a great point !!! I’m just going to accept it and move on.

I only have two more years on my warranty on my 2018, once I do the headers and tune it I won’t have to deal with it !

I can’t wait.

Me too but 2 years . . .

[angryBits]

Originally Posted by angryBits

I went back to the OEM TB, I disconnected the battery and followed the Soler TB relearn process with my OEM TB to rule out learning as a pro/con.

When I compare Soler vs OEM immediately after relearn:
Soler feels better no doubt.

When I compare Soler after 2-3 weeks to my now freshly relearned OEM TB:
The OEM TB feels better.

So I suspect the OEM TB still has some learning to do and will also degrade in driveability and settle over the next couple weeks.

The remaining question is:
In a couple weeks when the OEM TB is all settled in, will it be the same as the Soler TB after it was settled in? I'll post back in a couple weeks.

As for placebo effect, I don't think it is. I think the Soler TB has a mechanical advantage over the OEM TB. I just think the GM Software is eventually outsmarting them both.
I'm going to bet the Soler TB would do well with a tune. But I'm tuning this car.

I'm now a couple days in and over 100 miles with the OEM TB after carefully following the Soler learn procedure with the OEM TB. I gotta say I'm pretty happy with it. It feels good still. I encourage someone experiencing the bog with a M6 and an OEM TB to pull the battery and carefully follow the Soler learn procedure... It could just be that our cars never got proper learn time.

Fingers crossed.