[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by 20Bluezl1

Shit not good no idea what to do now. No warranty on my 2020

Dang, not sure if a transmission flush change with new fluid/filter might help. I would certainly start there though. Could be a defective valve body though, hopefully not the transmission clutches which would typically cause slipping.

[20Bluezl1]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

Dang, not sure if a transmission flush change with new fluid/filter might help. I would certainly start there though. Could be a defective valve body though, hopefully not the transmission clutches which would typically cause slipping.

Trans fluid and filter changed at around 8000 miles

[clg82]

So back on track, nobody that has gotten this mod has chimed in so it’s safe to say not worthwhile unless you are cammed?

[Future1LEa10]

Originally Posted by clg82

So back on track, nobody that has gotten this mod has chimed in so it’s safe to say not worthwhile unless you are cammed?

I would disagree with that. Shift timings and pressures can be changed and I believe the TQ management in the TCM as well??

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by Future1LEa10

I would disagree with that. Shift timings and pressures can be changed and I believe the TQ management in the TCM as well??

You are free to disagree, I'm telling you that two highly regarded shops said there's nothing to be gained without a cam or unless you have a really high HP application where torque management is in effect but you're going to have a cam before you reach that level.

[clg82]

Originally Posted by Future1LEa10

I would disagree with that. Shift timings and pressures can be changed and I believe the TQ management in the TCM as well??

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

You are free to disagree, I'm telling you that two highly regarded shops said there's nothing to be gained without a cam or unless you have a really high HP application where torque management is in effect but you're going to have a cam before you reach that level.

Seems like there are more questions than answers in regards to this expensive mod….hopefully someone that has this done can chime in.

[radz28]

Is that slow shifting on a stock tune? If you're not on a stock ECM-tune, and someone tuned it for you, it could be a spark table contributing to the issue. But - I know my car, at low-load and high-RPM will shift a lot slower. I wonder if that's what you're talking about. Anyways - there is a little cheating you can get with shift feel that pre-T93-owners were tuning before they could unlock their T87as. Anyhow - I could also be way off, lol...

It would seem to me if this were a worth while investment, you should have the same tuning capabilities as the earlier TCMs - hopefully. I think torque management is the largest benefit, from what I can tell. There are the obvious RPM/quickness/speed/etc. changes, but I think the TMA is the biggest benefit. On a car I know, it's hard to tell if the TMA is coming from the torque tuning, or if it's coming from the TCM. I feel like you might get to a point to where the combination dictates a certain amount of torque request for the engine to keep the throttle open and spark at commanded advance, and that point might be pretty easy to reach and the T93 just starts to shut things down to save the drivetrain. That's all speculation. Maybe that 700-mark is where that starts to be an issue?

What I wonder is if these T93s have full functionality (e.g. does this TCM still have all of the different drive modes and all that). I forget how many shift patterns there are, depending on mode and such, but are those all there like factory? It's a lot of money to spend, IMO, if they aren't there, like stock.

[KingLT1]

Originally Posted by Z OH 6

You are free to disagree, I'm telling you that two highly regarded shops said there's nothing to be gained without a cam or unless you have a really high HP application where torque management is in effect but you're going to have a cam before you reach that level.

They might of said that you can get by on a stock TCM tune up to X power, but I don't believe they said there is no gains. There are gains to be had on a stock car and it has been proven. If I tuned a TCM on a car with the exact same mods as yours, you will get gapped on a stock TCM tune. 2-3 tenths reduction in ET just from a TCM tune alone even on a stock car and up to 4 tenths with all Torque management disabled. Search Pray Performance.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

They might of said that you can get by on a stock TCM tune up to X power, but I don't believe they said there is no gains. There are gains to be had on a stock car and it has been proven. If I tuned a TCM on a car with the exact same mods as yours, you will get gapped on a stock TCM tune. 2-3 tenths reduction in ET just from a TCM tune alone even on a stock car and up to 4 tenths with all Torque management disabled. Search Pray Performance.

I hear what you're saying, I really do, I just repeated what I've been told. Doesn't do much good to ask a shop to tune my TCM if they don't won't do it because they tell me there's no benefit. If this were coming from small mom and pop shops that haven't produced a quick car, I could say, they don't know what they're talking about but... I'm aware of Pray, just not sure I want to risk having them tune my TCM and ECM when Vengeance did the mods to my car, not sure how Vengeance would react to that if I ever wanted to add more mods later.

[juice3]

For an A10 car it doesn’t shift where the new power Is made if you have a cam. Have to tune to use the power.


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[radz28]

I wasn't there (obviously) for the conversation with the other shops saying there is nothing to be gained, but there's probably a lack of context that is missing, somewhere along this line of information.

I've seen those Pray posts, too, and it's also easy to see the TM from stock tunes, on stock cars in the logs. Perhaps, when it was said there were no gains, the response was from a power-angle. You won't necessarily make more power than the combination is capable of, however, gains can be made to optimize the tranny tune to use the power the combination is capable of making. Tuning for a cam, as already said, that makes power past the shift point of OEM-tuning, will most likely yield gains, but without shifting at higher RPMs, you won't be accessing that power.

It'd be nice to see exactly what's going on with this new option. If I understand correctly, the guy over at HHP has been around a while. I recognize his name from like 2-decades ago in the LS-world. I'm sure this is legit, but it's a lot of money to spend without too much information.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by radz28

I wasn't there (obviously) for the conversation with the other shops saying there is nothing to be gained, but there's probably a lack of context that is missing, somewhere along this line of information.

I've seen those Pray posts, too, and it's also easy to see the TM from stock tunes, on stock cars in the logs. Perhaps, when it was said there were no gains, the response was from a power-angle. You won't necessarily make more power than the combination is capable of, however, gains can be made to optimize the tranny tune to use the power the combination is capable of making. Tuning for a cam, as already said, that makes power past the shift point of OEM-tuning, will most likely yield gains, but without shifting at higher RPMs, you won't be accessing that power.

It'd be nice to see exactly what's going on with this new option. If I understand correctly, the guy over at HHP has been around a while. I recognize his name from like 2-decades ago in the LS-world. I'm sure this is legit, but it's a lot of money to spend without too much information.

The conversation was really straight forward, is there ANY benefit to TCM tuning with the mods on my car?

Rotofab Big Gulp
NW 103mm TB
Ported OEM blower
Kooks 2" headers
Kooks green cats
AWE catback exhaust
PCM tune
700whp

The answer from Vengeance Racing was no benefit with my current mods without a cam, and Jannetty Racing said my money would be better spent on a 2650R blower and a cam.

[Joshinator99]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

They might of said that you can get by on a stock TCM tune up to X power, but I don't believe they said there is no gains. There are gains to be had on a stock car and it has been proven. If I tuned a TCM on a car with the exact same mods as yours, you will get gapped on a stock TCM tune. 2-3 tenths reduction in ET just from a TCM tune alone even on a stock car and up to 4 tenths with all Torque management disabled. Search Pray Performance.

I think this is a great way to put it. You don’t *have* to tune your TCM and the car will still be damn fast, but you’re definitely leaving performance on the table by *not* tuning your TCM.

[Z OH 6]

Originally Posted by Joshinator99

I think this is a great way to put it. You don’t *have* to tune your TCM and the car will still be damn fast, but you’re definitely leaving performance on the table by *not* tuning your TCM.

I wonder if there's more to be gained on the A8 than the A10 by TCM tuning because Vengeance and Jannetty don't seem to think its worth doing at 700whp without a cam. You and King both have A8s and probably both have TCM tunes so maybe you are seeing decent gains even in a stock vehicle but maybe it just isn't necessary on the A10 until its time to raise the shift points or torque management becomes an issue with high HP applications.