[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Memphis SS

Corvette hasn’t had any marketing to speak of in years, GM”s commercials using “real people” was a joke. Sorry but you might trust your wife’s marketing skills but I haven’t seen anything that I would want to admit I was a part of if I worked for GM marketing.

Exactly.

[AZCamaroFan]

Camaro6 sold 72,000 in 2016 and 67.000 in 2017. It dropped to 50,000 in 2018 and 48,000 last year. People didn't suddenly forget it existed. the challenger got cheaper.

[396ssrat]

Pretty basic science, nothing more. "If the customer doesn't like what you are offering then offer something they do like". Simple! No degree needed. The days of GM telling the customer what they want are over. Many other manufacturers discovered this long ago.

[samurai]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Sorry but I simply have to trust Mrs. Number 3’s 2 degrees in Marketing and 5 years as Corvette Marketing manager. It’s the exact reason GM doesn’t advertise the Corvette,and it’s awesome too. You only advertise if it increases sales and in this case it wouldn’t.

Sorry, but you are totally wrong here. Chevy is running an absolutely huge marketing campaign for the C8 since the reveal. The big reveal event where they set up a huge event hall and invited a lot important car people. Featuring first rides with guys like Jay Leno or trending YT channels like Donut Media. Setting up a whole racetrack + cruise day in Las Vegas for every big automobile journalist. Showcasing the car at racetracks. Releasing tons and tons of pictures, b-rolls, the 23 detailled tutorial videos of the C8 for all features, etc, etc.

GM is going really big in marketing here and you feel how much hype this generates.

Compare that to the Camaro. We got ONE official picture of the 2020 model im May 2019. For the 2019 we had one short b-roll that is not even running footage, just a fixed camera position that shows two boring angles of the car. That's it. Special packages like Shock & Steel didn't even get a press release, they were just added to the build & price tool silently. They never invited press to test the 19+ models, didn't give the car out to journalists to generate attention. All videos you find are the content creator reaching out to dealers to get a by themself.

We now have a second Mustang refresh starting in January with the Mach 1 looking really sharp. Dodge got a huge media wave out now with their new Super Stock, Charger Redeye and Durango Hellcat models (which may not lead everyone to buy a Hellcat, but people interested in the models). What car will people buy who are not in the budget of a C8? The Camaro that you may stumple upon going to a Chevy dealer, if he actually has them on the lot, or a new Mustang or Challenger that surely get tons of media attention?

I asked the designer of the Shock & Steel packages why we don't have pics, his answer was that there is no good reason and the situation is frustrating - Take from that what you will. I think GM really decided to cut all further costs on the Camaro. We don't know if the Challenger and Mustang sales are actually making more profits with the incentives they give and the millions of dollars they spend more on marketing (and have to get back through sales). But we know Chevy knows how to market a car, they just don't want to for the Camaro. But at least the Camaro appeared in their electric future teaser, so I guess we will still see a Gen7.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by samurai

Sorry, but you are totally wrong here. Chevy is running an absolutely huge marketing campaign for the C8 since the reveal. The big reveal event where they set up a huge event hall and invited a lot important car people. Featuring first rides with guys like Jay Leno or trending YT channels like Donut Media. Setting up a whole racetrack + cruise day in Las Vegas for every big automobile journalist. Showcasing the car at racetracks. Releasing tons and tons of pictures, b-rolls, the 23 detailled tutorial videos of the C8 for all features, etc, etc.

Not to mention the fact that C8 number one was auctioned at Barrett-Jackson and Mr Chevrolet himself Rick Hendrick had the winning bid for $3M on. That made the national news all over the country. GM was smart to do that - bring that first one to auction at Barrett-Jackson no less. It would get HUGE public exposure and make the news with tons of free press. And it did.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

I get all the Chevy/GM fanboys here but I will tell you this, GM IS NOT SMART when it comes to marketing. Take the Camaro out of the equation, Look at Ford with the Bronco that's coming, the bronco and blazer were competitors way back when. The Blazer is a FAIL and watch the Bronco set records, The GM marketing team is TRASH!! And that trash starts at the TOP!

Ford has been using social media last few days to hype up the bronco before the reveal. Not going to lie the little teaser video they made that barely shows anything got me excited and I have never been a huge bronco fan

Originally Posted by Number 3

I'll say it again (and will probably have to again), GM designed and engineered the greatest Camaro ever and they did it for a very focused customer, the existing Gen5 Camaro customer, who when asked simply screamed MOHRRRRRRRR. And GM listened. So what you claim is if GM simply advertised (they actually do market the car) they would sell more. But this is the exact equivalent of saying that if you had the best Left Handed base ball gloves you could sell them to Right Handers if you were just smart enough to advertise.

They made a very exacting and precise machine with a very specific purpose for a very specific customer. They did not make a multi-purpose, fits everyone sport coupe. And in the end, even if they had a car that did fit more needs, coupes are dying. And if you look at the post for sales over the years, it's pretty clear.

Agreed. They made the best performing car in the segment, and I don't think that can be argued. The performance to dollar is insane. The problem is that a car like that is for a very specific set of people.

I think for Mustang I read somewhere it was something like 30-40% of all sold are V-8 Models. that means 60 to 70% are the lower trims....where all the performance benefits the high end models offer can't compensate for other things. I would imagine it's a similar spread for the other 2 in the segment. That is where being a good coupe is a benefit.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Ford has been using social media last few days to hype up the bronco before the reveal. Not going to lie the little teaser video they made that barely shows anything got me excited and I have never been a huge bronco fan

That is going to be a hit if the leaked pictures are accurate/final production: it's going to have an available 1+6 manual transmission with the 1 actually being an extra low gear. If Ford actually combines that with a diesel? Look out! Can you say serious rock crawler right out of the show room floor!

Moab is going to have to make room for these.

GM is missing an opportunity here. They need to bring Hummer back as just as serious an off roader as the Jeep Wrangler is and Bronco will be. Quit fartin around with making Hummer all electric.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

It never had mass appeal to begin with. As far as it’s purpose it’s exactly the same in 2020 as it was in 1967. No one ever bought a Camaro as the family truckster. You don’t need a marketing degree to understand that.

If people don’t know there’s a highly desirable car out there that’s affordable, they aren’t gonna buy it. If people do know there’s a highly desirable car out there that they can affor, they’re gonna buy it.

When the Heartbeat of America promo was running Camaro alone was selling 100k+\yr not including Firebirds. The Firebird/Trans Ams had their own “We Build Excitement” that worked well too. I would be curious if the people who worked for GM then and ran those promos had 3 or 4 marketing degrees. Maybe 5? If your wife has two, and those ads were classic and worth every penny, then it couldn’t be possible for those directors to not even have one, could it?

What’s the magic number generator your wife has with her two degrees that somehow show advertising isn’t needed?

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Exactly.

To quote Mrs. Number 3, "everyone thinks they know marketing". LOL

Originally Posted by samurai

Sorry, but you are totally wrong here. Chevy is running an absolutely huge marketing campaign for the C8 since the reveal. The big reveal event where they set up a huge event hall and invited a lot important car people. Featuring first rides with guys like Jay Leno or trending YT channels like Donut Media. Setting up a whole racetrack + cruise day in Las Vegas for every big automobile journalist. Showcasing the car at racetracks. Releasing tons and tons of pictures, b-rolls, the 23 detailled tutorial videos of the C8 for all features, etc, etc.

GM is going really big in marketing here and you feel how much hype this generates.

Compare that to the Camaro. We got ONE official picture of the 2020 model im May 2019. For the 2019 we had one short b-roll that is not even running footage, just a fixed camera position that shows two boring angles of the car. That's it. Special packages like Shock & Steel didn't even get a press release, they were just added to the build & price tool silently. They never invited press to test the 19+ models, didn't give the car out to journalists to generate attention. All videos you find are the content creator reaching out to dealers to get a by themself.

We now have a second Mustang refresh starting in January with the Mach 1 looking really sharp. Dodge got a huge media wave out now with their new Super Stock, Charger Redeye and Durango Hellcat models (which may not lead everyone to buy a Hellcat, but people interested in the models). What car will people buy who are not in the budget of a C8? The Camaro that you may stumple upon going to a Chevy dealer, if he actually has them on the lot, or a new Mustang or Challenger that surely get tons of media attention?

I asked the designer of the Shock & Steel packages why we don't have pics, his answer was that there is no good reason and the situation is frustrating - Take from that what you will. I think GM really decided to cut all further costs on the Camaro. We don't know if the Challenger and Mustang sales are actually making more profits with the incentives they give and the millions of dollars they spend more on marketing (and have to get back through sales). But we know Chevy knows how to market a car, they just don't want to for the Camaro. But at least the Camaro appeared in their electric future teaser, so I guess we will still see a Gen7.

Now you are confusing marketing and advertising. Advertising is a subset of Marketing.

And you are simply ignoring that marketing a car with very narrow interest will generate more sales.

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Not to mention the fact that C8 number one was auctioned at Barrett-Jackson and Mr Chevrolet himself Rick Hendrick had the winning bid for $3M on. That made the national news all over the country. GM was smart to do that - bring that first one to auction at Barrett-Jackson no less. It would get HUGE public exposure and make the news with tons of free press. And it did.

As he did with the first Gen6.

https://www.foxsports.com/nascar/sto...arizona-013116

And the first ZL1 Gen5

https://luxedb.com/rick-hendrick-buy...et-camaro-zl1/

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

That is going to be a hit if the leaked pictures are accurate/final production: it's going to have an available 1+6 manual transmission with the 1 actually being an extra low gear. If Ford actually combines that with a diesel? Look out! Can you say serious rock crawler right out of the show room floor!

Moab is going to have to make room for these.

GM is missing an opportunity here. They need to bring Hummer back as just as serious an off roader as the Jeep Wrangler is and Bronco will be. Quit fartin around with making Hummer all electric.

I have started following Bronco leaks a little bit more after Ford started their social media campaign and it looks like they might nail this one. I have never really been an off roader or jeep type guy but this has a grip on me for some reason.

[vtirocz]

I think Number3 is spot on with his assessment. Let's not forget that the 6th gen Camaro won ALL comparison tests it was involved in (that I can recall) back in the 2015-2016 timeframe when it came out including beating the M4 in a Head2Head comparison/video, was MotorTrend's 2016 Car of the Year, won Car and Driver's "10 best" award, placed 4th in MotorTrend's Best Driver's Car competition (good finish among some very expensive competition!) and was universally praised by road test editors for everything related to performance. It also had it's own reveal at Belle Isle with a ramp-up in information leading up to that.

How much better advertising can you possibly get than Car of the Year and taking down the M4? Yet sales were still relatively poor even in the 1st year.

Number 3 summed it up best. The team created the ultimate Camaro with major league performance and styling to match, but not the best coupe (in regards to usable rear seat space, high beltline/visibility, trunk space particularly in the convertible model, etc.). I personally was disappointed most in the rear seat space, which was quite a bit worse than the competition and worse than my 4th gen, since I need them when I use the car to pick up my kids. In the end, I could not overlook the performance and that was a trade-off I accepted, but I don't think most people that aren't "hard core enthusiasts" would.

[Number 3]

You guys are just hilarious.

This is no different than Bob Lutz's famous quote, "you can sell a young man's car to an old man, but you can't sell an old man's car to a young man".

You are simply falling into the internet trap of, "my car is awesome and I LOVE it". Everyone would want one if GM just had a clue.

As pointed out, the Camaro is designed and engineered for a very specific customer. One that would trade visibility, trunk space and rear seat room (GM publicly stated they did nothing for rear seat accommodation because CR gave a coupe 1 star regardless) so that they could have the lightest (imagine the threads if the Gen6 came out and weighed even 1 pound more than a Mustang) best handling, best performing car in the segment.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by vtirocz

I think Number3 is spot on with his assessment. Let's not forget that the 6th gen Camaro won ALL comparison tests it was involved in (that I can recall) back in the 2015-2016 timeframe when it came out including beating the M4 in a Head2Head comparison/video, was MotorTrend's 2016 Car of the Year, won Car and Driver's "10 best" award, placed 4th in MotorTrend's Best Driver's Car competition (good finish among some very expensive competition!) and was universally praised by road test editors for everything related to performance. It also had it's own reveal at Belle Isle with a ramp-up in information leading up to that.

How much better advertising can you possibly get than Car of the Year and taking down the M4? Yet sales were still relatively poor even in the 1st year.

Number 3 summed it up best. The team created the ultimate Camaro with major league performance and styling to match, but not the best coupe (in regards to usable rear seat space, high beltline/visibility, trunk space particularly in the convertible model, etc.). I personally was disappointed most in the rear seat space, which was quite a bit worse than the competition and worse than my 4th gen, since I need them when I use the car to pick up my kids. In the end, I could not overlook the performance and that was a trade-off I accepted, but I don't think most people that aren't "hard core enthusiasts" would.

At this point, I think there is not much more to say.

I did have a thought, though. You know those "pick two" triangles? Here is one to sum all of this up:

- Appeal to enthusiasts
- Appeal to general consumers
- No extra cost for "prestige"

Porsche/Audi would be the first two. You have enthusiasts but also people who would pay extra for them just for the badge, so the profit still works out. Mustang picked the last two.

Camaro picked the first and last items on the list. Historically, this hasn't really been a formula for great sales. It doesn't take away from how good the cars are, but it is what it is.

Sent from toaster or something

[samurai]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Now you are confusing marketing and advertising. Advertising is a subset of Marketing.

And you are simply ignoring that marketing a car with very narrow interest will generate more sales.

So what to you count as advertisement? Just tv spots and magazine pages? Paying journalists (or their expanses) to write articles and do videos about your new car, is that advertisement or not?

No matter if you call it advertisement or marketing, my point is that Chevy doesn't do a thing about the Camaro besides bringing a few to some racetracks.



Maybe you can shed some light how that is a good thing? To me it sounds like Chevy pulled all investments on 6th Gen Camaro.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by samurai

So what to you count as advertisement? Just tv spots and magazine pages? Paying journalists (or their expanses) to write articles and do videos about your new car, is that advertisement or not?

No matter if you call it advertisement or marketing, my point is that Chevy doesn't do a thing about the Camaro besides bringing a few to some racetracks.



Maybe you can shed some light how that is a good thing? To me it sounds like Chevy pulled all investments on 6th Gen Camaro.

Again, totally missing the point.

Marketing is about brand recognition and awareness. Advertising is one way to do that. Having the Camaro in NASCAR is another. And having Hendricks buy every Camaro and a Corvette at auction is another.

In the end, and I am being careful as this is the point you aren’t getting, GM designed a car to satisfy the true Camaro faithful. From what I’ve been told, normal customer clinics were pretty much not done as the customer was to satisfy Camaro enthusiasts. It was not designed as a broad market car. Marketing or advertising doesn’t work when you’ve locked in on your customer. In this case GM bet wrong. Go back to 2013 or so and read my posts. Make a great coupe first then a Camaro. GM did a great Camaro first and what was left was a compromised coupe. All the advertising in the world can’t overcome that,

Love it that you love your Camaro. In 2015 there was not a person on this site that wanted a Gen6 more than I did. But GM sacrificed so many things to give you your best Camaro ever that they missed me wanting a great coupe. And your first step to recovery is simply acknowledging my opinion of the Gen6 Camaro matters as much as yours. Can you?