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Old 03-12-2022, 02:47 PM   #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL View Post
Good to know and I appreciate the tip. I was looking at the 1.11, but Ken told me the DSUNO felt the most like OEM+ (He has a ZLE, so I listened).


I was also thinking since the TT format is only 15 minute sessions vs 25, that they wouldn't get as scorching. I have a set of Ti shims...would they be worth using? I'm always wary of shims because I know that heat has to go somewhere and it winds up in the pad and rotor.
Id say it is more venue dependent vs session length per se, albeit that could also play a role. Ive run some high torque pads at GP type venues with no issues, because straights were long enough to cool things down, yet got long pedal in just 2 laps on intermediate type venues with the same pads.

I think getting the SS colling ducts may make sense. Also vented pistons wouldn't hurt. Top shelf fluid. Many like the shims, but ya, the heat doesnt just "poof disappear". You'll know very soon if ya pull into a paddock and your wheels are smoking. Or the pedal gets longer. If the latter: dont push it, as next step is complete loss of pressure (as in once you boil the fluid - it is done).

PS Personally, I dont know what type of track events Ken is into. How often. Or what mods he's done. Or how fast he is. Etc. Etc. So, unless I know somebody elses situation first hand and in detail terms, I do not get swayed by their choices too much, because folks also tend to "swear" by their personal choices. Ive tried high torque pads based on feedback posted on this forum and boiled the fluid in 2 laps. So, it all depends on many, many variables and is never a binary choice. All IMO of course.
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Old 03-14-2022, 02:41 PM   #394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatthewAMEL View Post
Good to know and I appreciate the tip. I was looking at the 1.11, but Ken told me the DSUNO felt the most like OEM+ (He has a ZLE, so I listened).


I was also thinking since the TT format is only 15 minute sessions vs 25, that they wouldn't get as scorching. I have a set of Ti shims...would they be worth using? I'm always wary of shims because I know that heat has to go somewhere and it winds up in the pad and rotor.
This past PRI, at the Pagid racing tech seminar, their main point was speaking towards the initial, base modifications for brake on a track car, whether that be your street car going into HPDE or developing a grass-roots race car. In that, talking about the various issues you may come upon with brakes and how to approach them in sequence.

One thing that was pointed out was avoiding Ti shims. The reason being as it is seen as a band-aid to an issue and causes a scenario that sorta ends up working against your efforts/in compromise towards the issue of heat. The Ti shims do help reduce heat transfer into your caliper/brake fluid, but that heat gets held back into the pads and rotor; when you do that, you may be pushing your rotors and pads beyond or to the limit of their thermal capacity. What was indicated is that you then need to ensure your pads can deal with the held heat, and you may end up with accelerated wear still (spending more high-end pads and/or more often). With the rotors, if your are having high-heat issues at the caliper, and you elect to use something like Ti shims to hold heat from being transferred that way, you are likely already at a very high-heat scenario at the rotor anyway, and now you are holding more in - you are at a point where you really should be considering larger/thicker rotors...

Pagid recommended this base approach:
1st: Pads capable to the heat needs and compatibility to the tires to be used and/or ABS. In conjunction, the best possible brake fluid you can find, targeting dry boiling point as primary. If you can, utilizing rotors with the most thermal mass that will fit the existing system or best cooling capability.
2nd: Brake cooling (ducts, deflectors, vented pistons). Something to consider: thicker pads.
3rd: Larger brake system (thicker and/or increased diameter rotors with matched calipers in coordination).
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Old 03-14-2022, 02:47 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by TrackClub View Post
Id say it is more venue dependent vs session length per se, albeit that could also play a role. Ive run some high torque pads at GP type venues with no issues, because straights were long enough to cool things down, yet got long pedal in just 2 laps on intermediate type venues with the same pads.

I think getting the SS colling ducts may make sense. Also vented pistons wouldn't hurt. Top shelf fluid. Many like the shims, but ya, the heat doesnt just "poof disappear". You'll know very soon if ya pull into a paddock and your wheels are smoking. Or the pedal gets longer. If the latter: dont push it, as next step is complete loss of pressure (as in once you boil the fluid - it is done).

PS Personally, I dont know what type of track events Ken is into. How often. Or what mods he's done. Or how fast he is. Etc. Etc. So, unless I know somebody elses situation first hand and in detail terms, I do not get swayed by their choices too much, because folks also tend to "swear" by their personal choices. Ive tried high torque pads based on feedback posted on this forum and boiled the fluid in 2 laps. So, it all depends on many, many variables and is never a binary choice. All IMO of course.
100%. Pagid also talked about this at length. Actually giving very specific examples like Road America vs. Lime Rock or Laguna and a Trans Am car they were supporting recently. They actually said that track layout is a bigger factor than climate in many cases (which sounds weird, but when you think of the potential temperature deltas...).
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Old 03-14-2022, 02:53 PM   #396
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FYI, I am planning to test, on my car, how effective the C7 vented pistons are in reducing temp on these Camaros (SS 1LE, J6M brakes and SS track deflectors, pads will either be DS2500 or DS1.11).
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Old 03-14-2022, 05:33 PM   #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountain View Post
100%. Pagid also talked about this at length. Actually giving very specific examples like Road America vs. Lime Rock or Laguna and a Trans Am car they were supporting recently. They actually said that track layout is a bigger factor than climate in many cases (which sounds weird, but when you think of the potential temperature deltas...).
Completely agree here. Your previous post is also full of wisdom. There is no magic with brakes and one MUST look at them as a SYSTEM comprised of many parts that must work together, including other dependencies like venue, tires, fluid, etc. Unfortunately, many folks are successfully talked into upgrading pads first - which, of course - leads to other component upgrades and much $ outta wallet - as things get fried

Last edited by TrackClub; 03-14-2022 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 03-17-2022, 03:34 PM   #398
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https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603403

Posted this in the other part of the forums. Shows pictures of my Carbotech XP12 pads after about 650 miles at VIR(Fullx2 days, Northx1 day).
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Old 03-18-2022, 01:16 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by Mountain View Post
FYI, I am planning to test, on my car, how effective the C7 vented pistons are in reducing temp on these Camaros (SS 1LE, J6M brakes and SS track deflectors, pads will either be DS2500 or DS1.11).
Does the piston fit the 1LE caliper?

Thanks for your posts. Completely agree with what you said. I have a set of shims, but have never used them because I had a rudimentary understanding that the heat has to go somewhere and back into pad/rotor is the only place.

As I begin to push for time, I’m slowly investigating areas I can make small changes for big benefit. I think the 1LE brake is excellent and really doesn’t need my help. SRF and OEM pads have me comfortably in the 2:2X’s at Sebring. But I have noticed as I gain the confidence to brake later, I begin to get a bit of fade at the end of a session.
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Old 03-18-2022, 08:09 PM   #400
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C7 ZO6/GS vented pistons are the same diameters as the Gen 6 SS 1LE and ZL1, 30/34/38mm. Many Gen5 SS 1LE guys who ran the Brembo 6 pots did the C7 vented pistons, either buying the C7 caliper (me) or adding the vented pistons.
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Old 03-19-2022, 08:05 AM   #401
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Originally Posted by cdb95z28 View Post
C7 ZO6/GS vented pistons are the same diameters as the Gen 6 SS 1LE and ZL1, 30/34/38mm. Many Gen5 SS 1LE guys who ran the Brembo 6 pots did the C7 vented pistons, either buying the C7 caliper (me) or adding the vented pistons.
FYI - the J56 / J6M front pistons are same diameter as J6H / J57 but are shorter by I think it was 2mm. I’ll try to dig up an old thread with pics.
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Old 05-02-2022, 09:35 PM   #402
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Can anyone comment if these stoptech sport pads will work in the rear calipers of a SS 1LE? I have a couple sets of stoptech sports from my previous car. The front look like a direct fit but wasn't sure about the rear.
Stoptech Sport 309.10530
Inner Pad Height mm 69.3
Inner Pad Thick w/o Shim mm 14.6
Outer Pad Width 109.7
Outer Pad Height 69.3
Outer Pad Thick w/o Shim mm 14.6

https://centricparts.com/part-detail...t&model=camaro

I was comparing the specs to Ferodo ds1.11 and it looks like the pad height might be 6mm higher.

The front pads i have are 309.14051.

Not sure if i will track these or just use them for daily duty. Since i have them around i'd like to use them.
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Old 05-30-2022, 08:41 PM   #403
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Vented pistons for the fronts are working great. Don't need Ti shims anymore
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Old 05-31-2022, 01:42 PM   #404
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Vented pistons for the fronts are working great. Don't need Ti shims anymore
Nice! I'm looking forward to my sessions Friday on this and the deflectors.
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Old 06-01-2022, 06:39 AM   #405
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Vented pistons for the fronts are working great. Don't need Ti shims anymore
Part number on the vented pistons? My front calipers are long overdue for a rebuild, might as well swap these in.
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Old 11-15-2022, 01:27 PM   #406
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Interesting read. My conclusion so far - since it is winter, I can stick to stock brake pads. Had 2 track days on 2022 SS 1lE, no brake fade. A lot of dust. Great stopping power. But temperature was between 35-45 during both days, and it won't get warmer where I am.
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